[AT] history of PTO's on tractors .... when LIVE PTO
Phil Auten
pga2 at basicisp.net
Sun May 30 18:11:09 PDT 2021
I'm with you on the tactical nukes, Dean, but it will never happen
because of the politicians.
Phil in TX
On 5/30/2021 4:06 PM, Dean VP wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> I think you have the correct answer. What isn’t clear to me is
> whether this came out of Oliver’s engineering or Cockshuts. There was
> a very close business relationship between the two companies. As I
> recall I pursued this in the past without a clear resolution. During
> the 18 years I was on the farm Dad never had a Live PTO tractor. My
> much older brother had a JD 520 with live PTO so I got to see the
> benefits but didn’t get to enjoy them very much. My Dad had a thing
> about not spending much money on machinery so we were usually about
> one or two generations of tractors behind the current market. An
> example, A JD 70 w/o Live PTO, No Power Steering and No Roll-o-Matic
> front end. About as bare a tractor as one could buy. But when real
> work needed to be done it did the job. 4 bottom tag plow on any of our
> 410 acres. There are two things us farm boys never forget and that is
> the look and smell of freshly cut alfalfa or freshly plowed land. I
> distinctly remember how hard it was at first to make a 90 degree turn
> with the #5 mower and not leave single stalk of alfalfa standing at
> that corner. Had to satisfy my Dad’s perfectionist requirement. “Do
> it right or don’t do it at all”. He was very, very difficult to
> satisfy. But… one learns to live with very little positive
> reinforcement. That was just the way it was. End of discussion. To
> this day I wonder what would have happened if I had just given up and
> left the farm much earlier than I finally did? Too much time on a
> Garden tractor to let my mind wonder. I kind of get the same sense
> of accomplishment mowing the lawn for several hours now as I got out
> in the field on the farm in the 40’s and 50’s. Lots of time to let the
> mind wonder and solve all the world’s problems. Unfortunately, on
> some of the really difficult world problems I resort to tactical
> nuclear weapons as a solution. 😊
>
> Dean VP
>
> Snohomish, WA 98290
>
> "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and
> gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
>
> ..Winston Churchill...
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck
> Bealke
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 29, 2021 3:53 PM
> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] history of PTO's on tractors .... when LIVE PTO
>
> Y’all,
>
> Seems like we had the "first live PTO tractor" discussion here some
> years ago, and the winner was the Cockshutt 30. Can’t find any real
> argument for this now and see this Canadian PTO pioneer was made in
> 1946. Also read that Oliver had it in 1947 on the 88, but don’t know
> if this was the only Oliver with live PTO that year. Like hydraulic
> power, live PTO can spoil you in a hurry. Vividly remember the day I
> moved our 7-ft. armstrong lift JD No. 8 sicklebar mower from my MH446
> to the JD530 with live PTO and equipped it with a remote hyd.
> cylinder. This was a happy time, as I was far less tempted to loose
> my religion over gophers mounds when mowing alfalfa. Use to love the
> way a rolling fresh cut hay field looked. Like moldboard plowing, you
> could see your satisfying work on display.
>
> Chuck Bealke
>
> Dallas, TX
>
>
>
> On May 29, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Spencer Yost <spencer at rdfarms.com
> <mailto:spencer at rdfarms.com>> wrote:
>
> I always wanted a Roto Baler. I don’t have a single sane, logical
> reason other than I just love to watch them in action. Since I
> have small acreage I thought it would be interesting to try to use
> one. Unfortunately they were never popular around here so I would
> have to haul one in from afar and they are difficult to transport.
> So I’ve never had the opportunity to buy one that was in good
> enough shape to be worth the effort to transport.
>
> Plus it would take up a lot of my nonexistent shed space. (-: I
> could not keep it out of the rain without erecting a shed. The
> lumber would cost more than the rotobaler (-:
>
> Spencer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 29, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Mark Johnson
> <markjohnson100 at centurylink.net
> <mailto:markjohnson100 at centurylink.net>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Herb & all:
>
> I remember that we had two different JD A's and a 620 when I
> was growing up...the 'old' A definitely did not have live PTO.
> The 'new' A (pressed steel frame instead of cast iron) *might*
> have had live PTO; I just don't recall. The 620 and everything
> later that we had, all definitely had live PTO. We used the
> 620 and 730s to power our AC roto baler. The IH 300 would
> have had enough power, but lacked the live PTO, so it got
> relegated to rake duty. My dad said this of the original AC
> roto baler design: "I never baled with it without something
> breaking during the day. But I also never failed to finish
> baling what we had raked and ready." Admittedly, ours was old,
> and had been extensively rebuilt. Even at that, the latch
> plates that held the upper and lower belt gangs in the 'roll a
> bale" position had some wear, and would occasionally release
> without being tripped - either while we were running twine, or
> even before that. I always thought of it as the baler
> "throwing up" on us.
>
> If the bale hadn't been partially tied, we just carried the
> hay back around to the pickup deck and ran it through again :-).
>
> For myself, I always thought of the AC Roto-Baler as being an
> engineer's dream and a mechanic's nightmare. Lots of manual
> operation (stopping to feed twine manually, then tripping the
> release to eject the bale every time. I heard some tales that
> there was a later version, never produced or built only in
> small quantities, that had a way to 'hold' hay while the twine
> feed was running, so the operator didn't have to stop for each
> bale. I can only imagine the mechanical complexity of such a
> beast. Can anybody confirm or deny?
>
> Mark J
>
> On 5/29/2021 9:34 AM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>
> I think the earliest live PTO was on the WD Allis
> Chalmers. Built to power the AC roto baler. The hand
> clutch stopped forward travel and left he PTO running. I
> really liked running my old WD, just hated the seat. I
> still have kinks in my back from it...
> Cecil
>
> On 5/28/2021 9:05 PM, HERBERT METZ wrote:
>
> Dean, I certainly agree and hope that purists pick up
> on this by sharing their knowledge of history of these
> two PTO systems. Herb(GA)
>
> On 05/28/2021 4:36 PM Dean VP <deanvp at att.net>
> <mailto:deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>
> Herb,
>
> In addition to your question when did LIVE PTO
> arrive and what tractor Manufacturer provided it.
> I do believe there is a distinction needed to be
> made between INDEPENDENT LIVE PTO and LIVE PTO for
> the purists
>
> Dean VP
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On
> Behalf Of *HERBERT METZ
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 23, 2021 4:19 AM
> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject:* [AT] history of PTO's on tractors
>
> When did PTO's first appear on tractors? I assume
> sickle bar mowers was one of the first implements
> that PTO's appeared on?
>
> I use an Allis Chalmers PTO powered four foot
> tiller behind my AC720 large lawn tractor; sure is
> a nice way to till our large vegetable garden.
>
> Herb(GA)
>
>
>
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