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<p>I'm with you on the tactical nukes, Dean, but it will never
happen because of the politicians.</p>
<p>Phil in TX<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/30/2021 4:06 PM, Dean VP wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think you have the correct answer. What
isn’t clear to me is whether this came out of Oliver’s
engineering or Cockshuts. There was a very close business
relationship between the two companies. As I recall I pursued
this in the past without a clear resolution. During the 18
years I was on the farm Dad never had a Live PTO tractor. My
much older brother had a JD 520 with live PTO so I got to see
the benefits but didn’t get to enjoy them very much. My Dad
had a thing about not spending much money on machinery so we
were usually about one or two generations of tractors behind
the current market. An example, A JD 70 w/o Live PTO, No
Power Steering and No Roll-o-Matic front end. About as bare a
tractor as one could buy. But when real work needed to be done
it did the job. 4 bottom tag plow on any of our 410 acres.
There are two things us farm boys never forget and that is the
look and smell of freshly cut alfalfa or freshly plowed land.
I distinctly remember how hard it was at first to make a 90
degree turn with the #5 mower and not leave single stalk of
alfalfa standing at that corner. Had to satisfy my Dad’s
perfectionist requirement. “Do it right or don’t do it at
all”. He was very, very difficult to satisfy. But… one
learns to live with very little positive reinforcement. That
was just the way it was. End of discussion. To this day I
wonder what would have happened if I had just given up and
left the farm much earlier than I finally did? Too much time
on a Garden tractor to let my mind wonder. I kind of get the
same sense of accomplishment mowing the lawn for several
hours now as I got out in the field on the farm in the 40’s
and 50’s. Lots of time to let the mind wonder and solve all
the world’s problems. Unfortunately, on some of the really
difficult world problems I resort to tactical nuclear weapons
as a solution. <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">..Winston Churchill...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a> <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Chuck Bealke<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 29, 2021 3:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at@lists.antique-tractor.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] history of PTO's on tractors ....
when LIVE PTO<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Y’all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seems like we had the "first live PTO
tractor" discussion here some years ago, and the winner was
the Cockshutt 30. Can’t find any real argument for this now
and see this Canadian PTO pioneer was made in 1946. Also
read that Oliver had it in 1947 on the 88, but don’t know if
this was the only Oliver with live PTO that year. Like
hydraulic power, live PTO can spoil you in a hurry. Vividly
remember the day I moved our 7-ft. armstrong lift JD No. 8
sicklebar mower from my MH446 to the JD530 with live PTO and
equipped it with a remote hyd. cylinder. This was a happy
time, as I was far less tempted to loose my religion over
gophers mounds when mowing alfalfa. Use to love the way a
rolling fresh cut hay field looked. Like moldboard plowing,
you could see your satisfying work on display.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck Bealke<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dallas, TX<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On May 29, 2021, at 11:28 AM,
Spencer Yost <<a
href="mailto:spencer@rdfarms.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">spencer@rdfarms.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I always wanted a Roto Baler.
I don’t have a single sane, logical reason other
than I just love to watch them in action. Since
I have small acreage I thought it would be
interesting to try to use one. Unfortunately
they were never popular around here so I would
have to haul one in from afar and they are
difficult to transport. So I’ve never had the
opportunity to buy one that was in good enough
shape to be worth the effort to transport.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Plus it would take up a lot
of my nonexistent shed space. (-: I could
not keep it out of the rain without erecting a
shed. The lumber would cost more than the
rotobaler (-:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Spencer<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On May 29,
2021, at 10:57 AM, Mark Johnson <<a
href="mailto:markjohnson100@centurylink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">markjohnson100@centurylink.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Herb
& all: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
remember that we had two different JD
A's and a 620 when I was growing
up...the 'old' A definitely did not have
live PTO. The 'new' A (pressed steel
frame instead of cast iron) *might* have
had live PTO; I just don't recall. The
620 and everything later that we had,
all definitely had live PTO. We used the
620 and 730s to power our AC roto
baler. The IH 300 would have had enough
power, but lacked the live PTO, so it
got relegated to rake duty. My dad said
this of the original AC roto baler
design: "I never baled with it without
something breaking during the day. But I
also never failed to finish baling what
we had raked and ready." Admittedly,
ours was old, and had been extensively
rebuilt. Even at that, the latch plates
that held the upper and lower belt gangs
in the 'roll a bale" position had some
wear, and would occasionally release
without being tripped - either while we
were running twine, or even before that.
I always thought of it as the baler
"throwing up" on us.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If
the bale hadn't been partially tied, we
just carried the hay back around to the
pickup deck and ran it through again
:-). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For
myself, I always thought of the AC
Roto-Baler as being an engineer's dream
and a mechanic's nightmare. Lots of
manual operation (stopping to feed twine
manually, then tripping the release to
eject the bale every time. I heard some
tales that there was a later version,
never produced or built only in small
quantities, that had a way to 'hold' hay
while the twine feed was running, so the
operator didn't have to stop for each
bale. I can only imagine the mechanical
complexity of such a beast. Can anybody
confirm or deny?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Mark
J<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/29/2021 9:34
AM, Cecil Bearden wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
think the earliest live PTO was on the
WD Allis Chalmers. Built to power the
AC roto baler. The hand clutch
stopped forward travel and left he PTO
running. I really liked running my
old WD, just hated the seat. I still
have kinks in my back from it...<br>
Cecil<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/28/2021 9:05
PM, HERBERT METZ wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dean,
I certainly agree and hope that
purists pick up on this by
sharing their knowledge of
history of these two PTO
systems. Herb(GA) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 05/28/2021
4:36 PM Dean VP <a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><deanvp@att.net></a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Herb,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">In
addition to your question when
did LIVE PTO arrive and what
tractor Manufacturer provided
it. I do believe there is a
distinction needed to be made
between INDEPENDENT LIVE PTO and
LIVE PTO for the purists<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dean
VP<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
AT <a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On
Behalf Of </span></strong>HERBERT
METZ<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong>
Sunday, May 23, 2021 4:19 AM<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To:</span></strong>
Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at@lists.antique-tractor.com></a><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong>
[AT] history of PTO's on
tractors<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">When
did PTO's first appear on
tractors? I assume sickle
bar mowers was one of the
first implements that PTO's
appeared on? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I
use an Allis Chalmers PTO
powered four foot tiller
behind my AC720 large lawn
tractor; sure is a nice way
to till our large vegetable
garden. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Herb(GA)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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