[AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
Cecil Bearden
crbearden at copper.net
Sat Jun 6 15:56:18 PDT 2020
I worked on all types of refrigeration in the Mercy Hospital in OKC
right after I graduated engineering. I had experience in auto and
residential A/C and when the refrig tech had to go to drug rehab, I took
his place and got a raise from my desk job as Preventive maintenance
coordinator. Since then I have repaired anything refrigerant related
except this blasted Montgomery Ward Refrig... The defrost timer must
be in the back underneath.. I have trouble bending down and it is in a
confined space in this Double wide. I bought a new one at Lowe's
Thursday night. When I get it out and on a forklift where I can work on
it, I have the parts to fix. It goes in the barn. I have to pay a
minimum rate for 3 phase power in that building, so I might as well have
some cold refreshments. It will keep things at 34deg and the freezer at
20 below....
Cecil
On 6/6/2020 5:34 PM, Mike M wrote:
> OK, so now the picture becomes clearer. We're going to a bonfire
> tonight with friends, one of whom is a certified unlimited tonnage
> refrigerant journeyman. He works on systems and chillers the size of
> which blow my mind, all industrial. I'll ask him about Deans problem.
> His mother had her refrigerator go out and rather than bother him she
> called a service company. They said it was a bad compressor and
> charged her around $700. When he got home she told him about the
> problem, and what they did. He immediately called the service tech and
> asked him about the problem. The service tech told him,"sir this is
> very complicated" This lit the fuse on my buddy who asked him if he
> ohm's out certain parts and other very specific technical questions.
> The serviceman soon realized he chewed on the wrong dog, and referred
> him to the owner of the company. After checking her system her
> determined that it was a relay or some inexpensive part. Don't quote
> me on the parts I'm not an expert. The owner dropped the charge from
> $700 to $150 apologized profusely.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 6/6/2020 6:04 PM, bradloomis at charter.net wrote:
>>
>> Oh they can and do leak but they aren’t supposed to leak, AT ALL.
>> Ever. Sealed systems. Now, by law, leaks have to be repaired. You can
>> no longer just “add some” refrigerant because you can do that in
>> perpetuity. Of course there are exceptions to all laws. Hell even
>> autos aren’t supposed to ‘leak’. I doubt most cars newer than what?
>> 10? 20? Years old “leak” a little oil. Unless there is something
>> wrong, just like that A/C unit. Something isn’t right. Any A/C guy
>> that doesn’t find and fix the leak is negligent, or just a bad
>> mechanic. If your son inlaw is just family with refrigerant adding it
>> to your system, no harm no foul. I’ve worked on 50 year old units
>> that are still intact and working without ever having the systems
>> opened. Like cars, tractors, and refrigerators, some are better than
>> others.
>>
>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 2:18 PM
>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> I'm still having a hard time with your statement that a system cannot
>> leak over time. A small leak will lower the refrigerant level over
>> time, no different than a car with a small oil leak will lead to a
>> lower oil level "over time". I don't want to get into the different
>> refrigerants, and whether they are good or bad, I am more interested
>> in dealing with Deans problem, and for you to say that it couldn't be
>> low refrigerant is bogus, you clearly stated that that there is no
>> such thing as a small leak over time, " *If it leaks it has a leak.
>> No over time, no evaporating*" please clarify your statement.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/6/2020 4:09 PM, bloomis at charter.net <mailto:bloomis at charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If he didn’t fix the leak then
>> he’ll be adding more. I didn’t say it couldn’t be a small leak,
>> but still a leak. If it is a split system it probably holds 4-6
>> lbs. of refrigerant. A domestic refrigerator holds less than a
>> pound. I had a little 3’ pie case that had a leak that I never
>> found. Every 3 months it would quit. The charge was 6oz of R-12.
>> That is a tiny leak. So if pie cases, or any other refrigerant
>> system had small leaks by design, refrigeration mechanics would
>> never go home. It was at the Piedras Blancas Motel, which closed
>> shortly thereafter. Forever.
>> https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/
>>
>> The reason the ozone layer and refrigerants came under scrutiny
>> was primarily due to the automobile. Older cars were notorious to
>> leak, all averaging 2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply that by the millions
>> and that is a lot of R-12 into the atmosphere. I am not going to
>> argue the science, just the outcome. That effected ALL
>> refrigeration, A/C. When I first started in the trade when one
>> needed to empty a system for repair you just blew it out into the
>> atmosphere. Now recovery machines and a slew of refrigerants. I
>> got out of commercial refrigeration as the plethora of
>> refrigerants was overwhelming. You never knew what the last guy
>> put in a system. Used to be three, R=12 for most medium temp/
>> some low temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502 for low temp. Simple and
>> easy. I couldn’t work on a new A/C system as I’ve never worked
>> with 410a. Totally different animal. Now it’s already being
>> phased out. Long live ammonia! Easy, and enviro friendly. Mostly.
>> Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane. Most of
>> us know what that is. Not much. Liquid of course.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM
>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> So an air conditioning system can't have a small leak that
>> reduces the level of refrigerant over time? Then why did my son
>> in law just have to add 2 lbs to our older AC unit? Where did it go?
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, bradloomis at charter.net
>> <mailto:bradloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> If it leaks it has a leak. No over time, no evaporating. A
>> leak. Some repairable some not so much. Especially on a
>> domestic refrigerator. Gets into cost of repair exceeds value
>> of equipment. However that could cause excessive run time but
>> the compartments would be warm, eventually hot. Dean
>> indicated that temps were OK. Granted without a thermometer.
>> Calibrated fingers? 😊
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> I would be suspicious of your refrigerant level, it can leak
>> over time.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > We have a GE side by side refrigerator, Model TFX27F, with
>> all the bells and whistles Front Door Ice and Water
>> dispenser, access door to refrigerator without opening the
>> big door, etc etc. In fact we have a duplicate running in
>> our kitchen right now. This one was used as extra freezer
>> and refrigerator space for awhile when we moved here 20 years
>> ago and then it was turned off and not used for at least 10
>> years. Well in my current need of making space in the
>> garage I fired it back up to check everything to get it ready
>> for sale. It freezes and the refrigerator compartment gets
>> cool like it should, well I haven't put a thermometer in each
>> compartment, but it appears to me to be working. Except.....
>> it never quits running. Not quite true it runs about 95% of
>> the time. Without having door opened or anything disturbed.
>> We have had such good luck with this era of combination
>> freezer refrigerator I thought it might be worth something to
>> those just getting on their feet. I've cleaned the whole
>> guts under the compartments and it really wasn't all that
>> bad. The coils are clean as can be. I doubt this thing is
>> worth more than $100 running as it should but if I could find
>> a cheap fix it might be worth spending $20 on a part or so.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And to satisfy the list needs of being on topic. I need to
>> make more room for Antique Tractor stuff I don't need. Any
>> one have a test I can run or a particular part I can check?
>> I'm pretty proficient electronics wise. Besides if I could
>> get this running properly somebody might take this off my
>> hands and I won't have to deal with getting rid of it. It
>> would take my loader tractor to get it in to my P/U bed. Big
>> heavy sucker. Help? PS: I don't remember the last time I
>> threw something away but I do remember it was traumatic.! 😊
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dean VP
>>
>> > Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>>
>>
>>
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