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<p>I worked on all types of refrigeration in the Mercy Hospital in
OKC right after I graduated engineering. I had experience in auto
and residential A/C and when the refrig tech had to go to drug
rehab, I took his place and got a raise from my desk job as
Preventive maintenance coordinator. Since then I have repaired
anything refrigerant related except this blasted Montgomery Ward
Refrig... The defrost timer must be in the back underneath.. I
have trouble bending down and it is in a confined space in this
Double wide. I bought a new one at Lowe's Thursday night. When I
get it out and on a forklift where I can work on it, I have the
parts to fix. It goes in the barn. I have to pay a minimum rate
for 3 phase power in that building, so I might as well have some
cold refreshments. It will keep things at 34deg and the freezer
at 20 below....<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2020 5:34 PM, Mike M wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:6b262ae7-6873-7c69-231e-2f5d83a08bef@gmx.com">
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OK, so now the picture becomes clearer. We're going to a bonfire
tonight with friends, one of whom is a certified unlimited tonnage
refrigerant journeyman. He works on systems and chillers the size
of which blow my mind, all industrial. I'll ask him about Deans
problem. His mother had her refrigerator go out and rather than
bother him she called a service company. They said it was a bad
compressor and charged her around $700. When he got home she told
him about the problem, and what they did. He immediately called
the service tech and asked him about the problem. The service tech
told him,"sir this is very complicated" This lit the fuse on my
buddy who asked him if he ohm's out certain parts and other very
specific technical questions. The serviceman soon realized he
chewed on the wrong dog, and referred him to the owner of the
company. After checking her system her determined that it was a
relay or some inexpensive part. Don't quote me on the parts I'm
not an expert. The owner dropped the charge from $700 to $150
apologized profusely. <br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2020 6:04 PM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">bradloomis@charter.net</a>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Oh they can and do leak but they aren’t
supposed to leak, AT ALL. Ever. Sealed systems. Now, by law,
leaks have to be repaired. You can no longer just “add some”
refrigerant because you can do that in perpetuity. Of course
there are exceptions to all laws. Hell even autos aren’t
supposed to ‘leak’. I doubt most cars newer than what? 10?
20? Years old “leak” a little oil. Unless there is something
wrong, just like that A/C unit. Something isn’t right. Any
A/C guy that doesn’t find and fix the leak is negligent, or
just a bad mechanic. If your son inlaw is just family with
refrigerant adding it to your system, no harm no foul. I’ve
worked on 50 year old units that are still intact and
working without ever having the systems opened. Like cars,
tractors, and refrigerators, some are better than others. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 2:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on
Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I'm still
having a hard time with your statement that a system cannot
leak over time. A small leak will lower the refrigerant
level over time, no different than a car with a small oil
leak will lead to a lower oil level "over time". I don't
want to get into the different refrigerants, and whether
they are good or bad, I am more interested in dealing with
Deans problem, and for you to say that it couldn't be low
refrigerant is bogus, you clearly stated that that there is
no such thing as a small leak over time, " <b>If it leaks
it has a leak. No over time, no evaporating</b>" please
clarify your statement.<br>
<br>
Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 4:09 PM, <a
href="mailto:bloomis@charter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">bloomis@charter.net</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If he
didn’t fix the leak then he’ll be adding more. I didn’t
say it couldn’t be a small leak, but still a leak. If it
is a split system it probably holds 4-6 lbs. of
refrigerant. A domestic refrigerator holds less than a
pound. I had a little 3’ pie case that had a leak that I
never found. Every 3 months it would quit. The charge was
6oz of R-12. That is a tiny leak. So if pie cases, or any
other refrigerant system had small leaks by design,
refrigeration mechanics would never go home. It was at the
Piedras Blancas Motel, which closed shortly thereafter.
Forever. <a
href="https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason the ozone layer and
refrigerants came under scrutiny was primarily due to the
automobile. Older cars were notorious to leak, all
averaging 2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply that by the millions
and that is a lot of R-12 into the atmosphere. I am not
going to argue the science, just the outcome. That
effected ALL refrigeration, A/C. When I first started in
the trade when one needed to empty a system for repair you
just blew it out into the atmosphere. Now recovery
machines and a slew of refrigerants. I got out of
commercial refrigeration as the plethora of refrigerants
was overwhelming. You never knew what the last guy put in
a system. Used to be three, R=12 for most medium temp/
some low temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502 for low temp.
Simple and easy. I couldn’t work on a new A/C system as
I’ve never worked with 410a. Totally different animal. Now
it’s already being phased out. Long live ammonia! Easy,
and enviro friendly. Mostly. <br>
Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane.
Most of us know what that is. Not much. Liquid of course.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on
Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">So an air
conditioning system can't have a small leak that reduces
the level of refrigerant over time? Then why did my son in
law just have to add 2 lbs to our older AC unit? Where did
it go?<br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, <a
href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">bradloomis@charter.net</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoPlainText">If it leaks it has a leak. No over
time, no evaporating. A leak. Some repairable some not
so much. Especially on a domestic refrigerator. Gets
into cost of repair exceeds value of equipment. However
that could cause excessive run time but the compartments
would be warm, eventually hot. Dean indicated that temps
were OK. Granted without a thermometer. Calibrated
fingers? <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Brad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I would be suspicious of your
refrigerant level, it can leak over time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, <a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">deanvp@att.net</span></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> We have a GE side by side
refrigerator, Model TFX27F, with all the bells and
whistles Front Door Ice and Water dispenser, access door
to refrigerator without opening the big door, etc etc.
In fact we have a duplicate running in our kitchen right
now. This one was used as extra freezer and
refrigerator space for awhile when we moved here 20
years ago and then it was turned off and not used for at
least 10 years. Well in my current need of making
space in the garage I fired it back up to check
everything to get it ready for sale. It freezes and the
refrigerator compartment gets cool like it should, well
I haven't put a thermometer in each compartment, but it
appears to me to be working. Except..... it never quits
running. Not quite true it runs about 95% of the time.
Without having door opened or anything disturbed. We
have had such good luck with this era of combination
freezer refrigerator I thought it might be worth
something to those just getting on their feet. I've
cleaned the whole guts under the compartments and it
really wasn't all that bad. The coils are clean as can
be. I doubt this thing is worth more than $100 running
as it should but if I could find a cheap fix it might be
worth spending $20 on a part or so.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> And to satisfy the list needs
of being on topic. I need to make more room for Antique
Tractor stuff I don't need. Any one have a test I can
run or a particular part I can check? I'm pretty
proficient electronics wise. Besides if I could get
this running properly somebody might take this off my
hands and I won't have to deal with getting rid of it.
It would take my loader tractor to get it in to my P/U
bed. Big heavy sucker. Help? PS: I don't remember the
last time I threw something away but I do remember it
was traumatic.! <span style="font-family:"Segoe
UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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