[AT] Air lines for shop
Brad Loomis
brad.loomis at gmail.com
Mon Sep 13 13:56:12 PDT 2021
Speaking of tanks, the little 10 gallon portable air tanks you can get a HF
or TS or wherever for filling tires or rafts, have a destroy by date on
them. FYI. So if you have one see how many decades too old it is. :)
Brad
On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:01 PM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
> I get that, and it sounds reasonable, but let me ask the next question:
> have you ever seen a tank fail due to rust?
>
> SO
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 2:53 PM Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't drain my tanks as religiously as I should. Too often it is turn
>> the compressor on, fill a tire, turn it off, leave it for a month before I
>> have the next tire to fill. Thus I really want water to not get into my
>> tanks in the first place. I want it to collect someplace cheap and easy to
>> replace: not the tank.
>>
>> --
>> Henry Miller
>> hank at millerfarm.com
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 13:22, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>> > I am not arguing your point, but just observing that a cooler installed
>> > between the pump and the tank is not something you see every day unless
>> > it's a factory-built unit in the form of a fan-cooled radiator. These
>> > don't have water drains, either. Why try to keep water out of the tank?
>> > Reduced tank corrosion comes to mind; anything else? One problem with
>> this
>> > idea is that the air coming out of the pump is HOT. Whatever cooler you
>> > install has to be rated for high temperature. I know I ran into this
>> when
>> > I was spec'ing the chiller I recently installed on my 5HP compressor at
>> > work. The ones I looked at all generally had low input air temp rating;
>> > around 140F was max, and some were 120F. I vaguely recall one rated for
>> > 250F and the cost on that unit was easily double. Just curious.
>> >
>> > SO
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:48 PM Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > If you are worried about water (and you are right to worry) put your
>> > > compressor as far from where air will be used as possible, and use a
>> big
>> > > pipe close to the compressor. You want the air to move very slow
>> near the
>> > > compressor so as much water as possible drops out there. Make sure
>> you
>> > > properly take all the air off the top of your overhead pipe, and
>> slope that
>> > > pipe to a drain.
>> > >
>> > > If possible put a air cooler with a drain between your tank and the
>> pump:
>> > > keep the water out of the tank if possible.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Henry Miller
>> > > hank at millerfarm.com
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 10:19, Spencer Yost wrote:
>> > > > One of the reasons I have been thinking copper is because here in
>> the
>> > > > humid south, water in air lines is a problem. You can not paint
>> without
>> > > > a desiccant filter for example. Nothing worse than seeing water
>> droplets
>> > > > coming out with your paint (been there done that). One benefit I
>> > > > thought copper would have would be to condense water quickly and
>> > > > earlier in the run; therefore water vapor would be less of an issue
>> at
>> > > > the tool end(assuming I slant the lines to run back towards the
>> > > > compressor) and my tool-end water filters wouldn't fill up so fast.
>> > > >
>> > > > Anyone with experience with copper find this to be true?
>> > > >
>> > > > Also, copper is less than $1 per foot more expensive(3.46/ft vs
>> 2.69/ft)
>> > > > so for a run that will be less than 100' worth of pipe so I decided
>> to
>> > > > not sweat (excuse the pun) the cost factor between black pipe and
>> copper
>> > > > and just go on the merits.
>> > > >
>> > > > While continuing to look around at various options and along the
>> way I
>> > > > saw 1-1/2" black pipe at Lowes with an oddly specific PSI rating:
>> > > > 231PSI I'm beginning to think Brice might be right and they are
>> using
>> > > > steam rating....
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Spencer
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 9/13/21 9:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>> > > > > Brice reminded me of something. Now, it's been a while since
>> I've put
>> > > > > much thought into Schedule rating of pipe. Reviewing, the basic
>> > > > > definition is: Schedule = Pressure/Stress. Example: Schedule 40
>> > > > > pipe at 1200 psi would have stress of 30 ksi developed in the
>> walls.
>> > > > > That's why wall thickness increases with pipe diameter - larger
>> > > > > diameter means larger internal surface area means higher force
>> for a
>> > > > > given pressure, so wall thickness is increased to fight the higher
>> > > > > forces and keep stress in the wall constant. I pick the example
>> > > > > above because Schedule 40 Class A pipe has a yield stress rating
>> of 30
>> > > > > ksi. (There is also a Class B which is somewhat stronger). At
>> 175
>> > > > > psi your factor of safety is almost 7, which is quite large. I'd
>> > > > > sleep well with this number as small as 4 - in other words,
>> 300psi.
>> > > > > Of course there's additional considerations for the fittings and
>> > > > > whatnot, but as long as it's Schedule 40, there's really nothing
>> to
>> > > > > worry about.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > That stuff at Lowe's claiming 150 psi.... I don't believe it. The
>> > > > > people writing up the specs on their website are probably
>> minimum-wage
>> > > > > drones. I would get ahold of a chart showing wall thickness vs
>> pipe
>> > > > > diameter and measure the wall thickness right there in the store
>> (yeah
>> > > > > I do tend to travel with a caliper in my bag most of the time).
>> > > > > Dimensions alone would confirm if this "150 psi" stuff is actually
>> > > > > Schedule 40.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I know you don't really want to use black iron pipe but I like I
>> said
>> > > > > Brice sort of reminded me of how all this pressure rating stuff
>> > > > > works. Of all the options, black pipe is certainly the most
>> > > > > old-school, antique-tractor appropriate. I'm not against the
>> modern
>> > > > > materials and I would also seriously consider Pex, but not PVC.
>> I can
>> > > > > solder copper way faster than I can screw together black pipe but
>> > > > > copper is pretty darn pricey these days. In my own shop, the
>> answer
>> > > > > is: rubber hose. I've never graduated past the portable
>> compressor
>> > > > > to something big and stationary that lends itself to permanent
>> > > plumbing.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > SO
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brice Adams <
>> brice.adams at gmail.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Spencer,
>> > > > > Something tweaked my memory from plumbing the Huber about
>> > > > > different pressure ratings for steam, air, and fluids with
>> > > > > schedule 40 and 80 pipe. The 150 psi may be the steam rating
>> and
>> > > > > the air rating is 34 to 6 times higher.
>> > > > > Brice
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM Ken Knierim
>> > > > > <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Go copper if you're comfortable with sweating it
>> together. I
>> > > > > did that after trying PVC for awhile. Got some AZ sun on
>> the
>> > > > > PVC and it blew out a couple times with sharp little
>> shards
>> > > > > flying around (doesn't survive impact damage well). I
>> like the
>> > > > > sound of PEX but again, sunlight is abundant here.
>> > > > > My $0.02
>> > > > > Ken in AZ
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:43 PM Spencer Yost
>> > > > > <spencer at rdfarms.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So I’m going to be making three new pipe runs from my
>> air
>> > > > > compressor. Previously I’ve just relied on hoses
>> since the
>> > > > > 50 foot hose will reach everywhere in my shop.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It will consist of one long “trunk” run that will be
>> > > > > nearly 40 feet, and then a few stub runs of anywhere
>> from
>> > > > > 5’ to 15’
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I was thinking about black pipe as that’s what I have
>> used
>> > > > > before. But I had no idea the common, affordable black
>> > > > > pipe you find in hardware stores is only good to 150
>> psi.
>> > > > > My compressor is two stage and is 175 psi:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 3/4-in x 3-ft 150-PSI Black Iron Pipe
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I guess I’m thinking about biting the bullet and going
>> > > > > copper. I’d like to go with some of those really neat
>> new
>> > > > > aluminum systems but I could never afford that.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What are y’all think about copper? I know 3/4” copper
>> is
>> > > > > good to about 1000 psi. It eliminates the rust
>> problem
>> > > > > that eventually befalls all black steel pipe systems;
>> > > > > which is kind of a plus. As far as installation, I
>> solder
>> > > > > better than I cut threads :-)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Spencer
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
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>> > > > --
>> > > > Spencer Yost
>> > > >
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