[AT] Air lines for shop
Stuart Harner
stuart at harnerfarm.net
Mon Sep 13 13:55:26 PDT 2021
I just had to buy a new compressor because my 15 year old tank rusted
out. I thought I was pretty good about draining it but apparently not
good enough. Got a whole new compressor for the price of a replacement
tank. New compressor got an hour meter and an auto drain valve installed
before it was even set in place. Fingers crossed that I won't ever have
to buy a new one.
Here is a neat home made idea for a cooler/condenser:
https://www.fordtruckzone.com/threads/air-compressor-water-trap.668275/
Stuart
On 9/13/21 2:00 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> I get that, and it sounds reasonable, but let me ask the next
> question: have you ever seen a tank fail due to rust?
>
> SO
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 2:53 PM Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com
> <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't drain my tanks as religiously as I should. Too often it
> is turn the compressor on, fill a tire, turn it off, leave it for
> a month before I have the next tire to fill. Thus I really want
> water to not get into my tanks in the first place. I want it to
> collect someplace cheap and easy to replace: not the tank.
>
> --
> Henry Miller
> hank at millerfarm.com <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 13:22, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > I am not arguing your point, but just observing that a cooler
> installed
> > between the pump and the tank is not something you see every day
> unless
> > it's a factory-built unit in the form of a fan-cooled radiator.
> These
> > don't have water drains, either. Why try to keep water out of
> the tank?
> > Reduced tank corrosion comes to mind; anything else? One
> problem with this
> > idea is that the air coming out of the pump is HOT. Whatever
> cooler you
> > install has to be rated for high temperature. I know I ran into
> this when
> > I was spec'ing the chiller I recently installed on my 5HP
> compressor at
> > work. The ones I looked at all generally had low input air temp
> rating;
> > around 140F was max, and some were 120F. I vaguely recall one
> rated for
> > 250F and the cost on that unit was easily double. Just curious.
> >
> > SO
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:48 PM Henry Miller
> <hank at millerfarm.com <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > If you are worried about water (and you are right to worry)
> put your
> > > compressor as far from where air will be used as possible, and
> use a big
> > > pipe close to the compressor. You want the air to move very
> slow near the
> > > compressor so as much water as possible drops out there. Make
> sure you
> > > properly take all the air off the top of your overhead pipe,
> and slope that
> > > pipe to a drain.
> > >
> > > If possible put a air cooler with a drain between your tank
> and the pump:
> > > keep the water out of the tank if possible.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Henry Miller
> > > hank at millerfarm.com <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, at 10:19, Spencer Yost wrote:
> > > > One of the reasons I have been thinking copper is because
> here in the
> > > > humid south, water in air lines is a problem. You can not
> paint without
> > > > a desiccant filter for example. Nothing worse than seeing
> water droplets
> > > > coming out with your paint (been there done that). One
> benefit I
> > > > thought copper would have would be to condense water
> quickly and
> > > > earlier in the run; therefore water vapor would be less of
> an issue at
> > > > the tool end(assuming I slant the lines to run back towards the
> > > > compressor) and my tool-end water filters wouldn't fill up
> so fast.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone with experience with copper find this to be true?
> > > >
> > > > Also, copper is less than $1 per foot more expensive(3.46/ft
> vs 2.69/ft)
> > > > so for a run that will be less than 100' worth of pipe so I
> decided to
> > > > not sweat (excuse the pun) the cost factor between black
> pipe and copper
> > > > and just go on the merits.
> > > >
> > > > While continuing to look around at various options and along
> the way I
> > > > saw 1-1/2" black pipe at Lowes with an oddly specific PSI
> rating:
> > > > 231PSI I'm beginning to think Brice might be right and
> they are using
> > > > steam rating....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Spencer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/13/21 9:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> > > > > Brice reminded me of something. Now, it's been a while
> since I've put
> > > > > much thought into Schedule rating of pipe. Reviewing, the
> basic
> > > > > definition is: Schedule = Pressure/Stress. Example:
> Schedule 40
> > > > > pipe at 1200 psi would have stress of 30 ksi developed in
> the walls.
> > > > > That's why wall thickness increases with pipe diameter -
> larger
> > > > > diameter means larger internal surface area means higher
> force for a
> > > > > given pressure, so wall thickness is increased to fight
> the higher
> > > > > forces and keep stress in the wall constant. I pick the
> example
> > > > > above because Schedule 40 Class A pipe has a yield stress
> rating of 30
> > > > > ksi. (There is also a Class B which is somewhat
> stronger). At 175
> > > > > psi your factor of safety is almost 7, which is quite
> large. I'd
> > > > > sleep well with this number as small as 4 - in other
> words, 300psi.
> > > > > Of course there's additional considerations for the
> fittings and
> > > > > whatnot, but as long as it's Schedule 40, there's really
> nothing to
> > > > > worry about.
> > > > >
> > > > > That stuff at Lowe's claiming 150 psi.... I don't believe
> it. The
> > > > > people writing up the specs on their website are probably
> minimum-wage
> > > > > drones. I would get ahold of a chart showing wall
> thickness vs pipe
> > > > > diameter and measure the wall thickness right there in the
> store (yeah
> > > > > I do tend to travel with a caliper in my bag most of the
> time).
> > > > > Dimensions alone would confirm if this "150 psi" stuff is
> actually
> > > > > Schedule 40.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know you don't really want to use black iron pipe but I
> like I said
> > > > > Brice sort of reminded me of how all this pressure rating
> stuff
> > > > > works. Of all the options, black pipe is certainly the most
> > > > > old-school, antique-tractor appropriate. I'm not against
> the modern
> > > > > materials and I would also seriously consider Pex, but not
> PVC. I can
> > > > > solder copper way faster than I can screw together black
> pipe but
> > > > > copper is pretty darn pricey these days. In my own shop,
> the answer
> > > > > is: rubber hose. I've never graduated past the portable
> compressor
> > > > > to something big and stationary that lends itself to permanent
> > > plumbing.
> > > > >
> > > > > SO
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brice Adams
> <brice.adams at gmail.com <mailto:brice.adams at gmail.com>>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Spencer,
> > > > > Something tweaked my memory from plumbing the Huber about
> > > > > different pressure ratings for steam, air, and fluids with
> > > > > schedule 40 and 80 pipe. The 150 psi may be the steam
> rating and
> > > > > the air rating is 34 to 6 times higher.
> > > > > Brice
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM Ken Knierim
> > > > > <ken.knierim at gmail.com <mailto:ken.knierim at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Go copper if you're comfortable with sweating it
> together. I
> > > > > did that after trying PVC for awhile. Got some AZ
> sun on the
> > > > > PVC and it blew out a couple times with sharp
> little shards
> > > > > flying around (doesn't survive impact damage
> well). I like the
> > > > > sound of PEX but again, sunlight is abundant here.
> > > > > My $0.02
> > > > > Ken in AZ
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:43 PM Spencer Yost
> > > > > <spencer at rdfarms.com <mailto:spencer at rdfarms.com>>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So I’m going to be making three new pipe runs
> from my air
> > > > > compressor. Previously I’ve just relied on
> hoses since the
> > > > > 50 foot hose will reach everywhere in my shop.
> > > > >
> > > > > It will consist of one long “trunk” run that
> will be
> > > > > nearly 40 feet, and then a few stub runs of
> anywhere from
> > > > > 5’ to 15’
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking about black pipe as that’s what
> I have used
> > > > > before. But I had no idea the common,
> affordable black
> > > > > pipe you find in hardware stores is only good
> to 150 psi.
> > > > > My compressor is two stage and is 175 psi:
> > > > >
> > > > > 3/4-in x 3-ft 150-PSI Black Iron Pipe
> > > > >
> > >
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442
> <https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442>
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess I’m thinking about biting the bullet
> and going
> > > > > copper. I’d like to go with some of those
> really neat new
> > > > > aluminum systems but I could never afford that.
> > > > >
> > > > > What are y’all think about copper? I know 3/4”
> copper is
> > > > > good to about 1000 psi. It eliminates the
> rust problem
> > > > > that eventually befalls all black steel pipe
> systems;
> > > > > which is kind of a plus. As far as
> installation, I solder
> > > > > better than I cut threads :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Spencer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
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> > > > --
> > > > Spencer Yost
> > > >
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