[AT] Tractor battery

Sat Nov 20 11:04:06 PST 2021

You really shouldn’t bolt a ground to something that then has to make
contact with the engine block. You want a direct connection to the block
for best grounding. Is there a bolt, like for the water pump or starter,
that is a through bolt with a nut on the block side? If so, put the cable
on the nut side where it can contact the block.

Carl

On Saturday, November 20, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:

> I did throw an meter on the ground and the bolt it is bolted to and it
> came back at 0.00 Ohms.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 11/20/2021 11:01 AM, Spencer Yost wrote:
>
> The battery usually sits in a tray and that tray is bolted on with 3 or 4
> bolts.  That would be my go-to spot if what I just said about a tray and
> it’s mounting is true for your tractor.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 20, 2021, at 9:40 AM, Carl Szabelski <c.s.szabelski at gmail.com>
> <c.s.szabelski at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I guess it’s also an issue of how long your cable is. You can get them in
> various lengths and wire sizes, so it becomes a matter of how far you have
> to route the cable. The farther you have to go, the larger the cable size.
> You would also have to consider strapping down the cable if you have to go
> a ways.
>
> Carl
>
>
> On Friday, November 19, 2021, HRP <hrpletch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And I don’t picture the adjusting bolt as necessarily having a good
>> connection to the block for the starter current.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2021, at 11:32 PM, Carl Szabelski <c.s.szabelski at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn’t use any bolt that’s primary use is for adjusting. You want a
>> bolt that once tightened down, doesn’t get touched again for any reason. If
>> you have to use one that isn’t as easy to get to, just keep in mind that
>> you shouldn’t ever have to touch it again. Whatever effort you have to go
>> through will hopefully only need to be done once.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Friday, November 19, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have an alternator adjustment bolt that is easy access, would that be
>>> a good choice?
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On 11/16/2021 11:34 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>
>>> You can run a new cable to the engine block, just need to find a spot
>>> where there is an unused threaded hole, or where you can remove a bolt and
>>> use it to make the attachment. Clean the area and hit it with a file or
>>> some sandpaper, then run a tap in the hole to make sure everything is clean
>>> before attaching the cable. If necessary use a new bolt and flat washer,
>>>  stainless will help with future corrosion issues/concerns.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 15, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tore out the battery today, tons of corrosion, to the point that the
>>>> positive nut for the clamp was almost reduced by 75%, I had to pound it
>>>> off. I thought I had things cleaned up but it appears that was not the
>>>> case. I'll go battery shopping tomorrow, and hopefully I can find something
>>>> close. Meanwhile I have the battery case coated in baking soda, to help
>>>> neutralize the leaking battery acid. Question for the list can I jump a
>>>> diesel, without the battery installed? I'm running out of time in Michigan,
>>>> and all our water is shut off except the barn frost free.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> On 11/15/2021 3:37 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At this point
>>>> even doing simple repairs are becoming hard if not impossible for the
>>>> average DIYer due to the way the companies are building them. There are
>>>> some out there now that have “sealed drivelines” where they have no
>>>> dipsticks or easily accessible fill plugs to even do routine service and
>>>> you need a scan tool to even check fluid levels!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
>>>> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles, thanks SteveW!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve O.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W. <swilliams268 at frontier.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the battery to see if it
>>>> stays running” test that used to be done. On any vehicles newer than about
>>>> 1998 that is almost a guaranteed way to destroy the charging system. On
>>>> most cars and trucks built from there on up, the voltage regulator is part
>>>> of the engines control unit. Those are not cheap to replace. Another no-no
>>>> is to jump start a newer vehicle without charging the battery or leaving a
>>>> jump pack on it, many of the newer vehicles will read the bad battery and
>>>> crank the voltage and amperage way up to try to compensate for the low
>>>> battery, that can kill the alternator, and if the battery is failing it can
>>>> blow it up from the excessive charging. I can’t count how many vehicles I
>>>> had to repair once the bug measures let people start using their cars
>>>> again, after they were parked for 3-4 months.
>>>>
>>>> Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of the over
>>>> engineered modern rolling computers made from about 2017 and up, Check
>>>> really close in service information before you replace an old battery, many
>>>> of those need to have the battery initialized into the system because the
>>>> ECU has adjusted itself as the old battery wore out, you need to tell it
>>>> that you are installing the new battery and what it is in CCA and type, be
>>>> it a flooded cell, AGM, Lithium or other as they all use slightly different
>>>> charging routines and it’s easy to cook a battery if it’s set up wrong. To
>>>> go with that, many of the parts stores offer installation as long as you
>>>> have one that is reasonably easy, there are quite a few that are not due to
>>>> the battery locations. OH and for the import owners, be sure which battery
>>>> you actually need as many of the high dollar brands use 2 or three
>>>> different batteries scattered around the vehicle. Mercedes for instance has
>>>> one in the trunk, one under the hood and one tucked in behind the dash!
>>>>
>>>> For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is another tip. On cars
>>>> that have lots of options or anything 2017 and up, the security systems can
>>>> be a royal pain if you remove the battery, they can lock you out of
>>>> everything so you end up towing it to a dealer to have it flashed back. The
>>>> way around this is simple. Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse box
>>>> or if it has them the jumper terminals mounted out in the open. Now grab a
>>>> power supply or a fully charged battery and connect it up to those, in the
>>>> case of using a spare battery, connect it, start the engine and let it run
>>>> for 20 minutes or so, that will equalize the charge in the add-on battery,
>>>> verify that the charging circuit is working as well, simply by measuring
>>>> the voltage with the engine off, then again with it running. With a power
>>>> supply (NOT A COMMON CHARGER) you just dial it up to the voltage the
>>>> service info says or at least 13 volts. Now you can disconnect the main
>>>> battery without losing any settings or programming because the ECU never
>>>> sees it disconnected. Just remember that the Positive terminal will still
>>>> be hot when you do this, my SOP is to pull the ground side, then take a
>>>> heavy rubber/plastic baggy and as soon as the pos. comes of it goes into
>>>> the bag to keep it safe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com>
>>>> *Sent: *Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
>>>> *To: *at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the alternator on and off.
>>>> Weird when driving to see the voltmeter not hold constant. (This was a
>>>> rental car, I almost turned around for one that worked before I figured it
>>>> out )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>   Henry Miller
>>>>
>>>>   hank at millerfarm.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Quick check is just battery voltage not running versus running.  If
>>>> your
>>>>
>>>> > alternator is putting out something, voltage is higher when running.
>>>> If
>>>>
>>>> > the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same or a bit lower
>>>> when
>>>>
>>>> > running (probably lower because the battery gave up some juice to
>>>> crank it
>>>>
>>>> > over).  If you are wondering if the alternator is somewhere in between
>>>>
>>>> > healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads as you can while
>>>>
>>>> > running.  Alternator should handle those loads and still give the
>>>> battery
>>>>
>>>> > terminals something over 13.5V.  (Because it is supplying other
>>>> things in
>>>>
>>>> > addition to battery recharge, you may not see the whole 14-ish volts,
>>>> but
>>>>
>>>> > it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing charge into the
>>>> battery.
>>>>
>>>> > Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > SO
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming out the alternator?
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> Hi Mike:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but I'd probably ask
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> >> Google for backup on that.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> A good range for battery terminal voltage engine-running is
>>>> 13.6V-14.4V.
>>>>
>>>> >> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature compensation,
>>>> dropping
>>>>
>>>> >> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is easier to charge
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> >> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the cold (when they're
>>>> not as
>>>>
>>>> >> eager to accept charge).  Not all alternators do this, but I just
>>>> wanted to
>>>>
>>>> >> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> SO
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some of the battery
>>>> chambers
>>>>
>>>> >>> with distilled water because some seemed a little low, and it leaked
>>>>
>>>> >>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way to clean that up? I
>>>> know
>>>>
>>>> >>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be across the terminals
>>>> with the
>>>>
>>>> >>> engine running?
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> >>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> The question is, what happened?  Is your alternator not charging?
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> SO
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up and the terminals
>>>> where
>>>>
>>>> >>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the terminals was
>>>> 13.3 and
>>>>
>>>> >>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it overnight, and will
>>>> give it a
>>>>
>>>> >>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts with a digital volt
>>>> meter,
>>>>
>>>> >>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on overnight, and it's
>>>> now up to
>>>>
>>>> >>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer.  It's raining here today
>>>> so I'm
>>>>
>>>> >>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check the grounds for
>>>> sure!
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know how it turns out.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has typed that over the
>>>>
>>>> >>>> years!
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that simply says bad
>>>>
>>>> >>>> connection.  I’m not sure why the focus on a bad battery just yet.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Steve O.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson <
>>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> 
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> .
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could back it up onto a
>>>> hill,
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected for 20-30 minutes
>>>> before
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the charger on all night.
>>>> Even with
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may die when you
>>>> disconnect the
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but the battery
>>>> probably won’t
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> take a charge.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight. It's an Exide Select
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE with 180 minutes of
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my truck but no luck
>>>> it would
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and about fell out of my
>>>> chair.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of stock. Does
>>>> anyone have
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was manufactured in 2014, so
>>>> I guess
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> Is
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> there
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>
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>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>
>>>> >>>> aka "farmer"
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>
>>>> >>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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