[AT] Tractor battery

Tue Nov 16 02:49:45 PST 2021

Mike - I would say DO NOT fire it up without a battery!  I'm not certain
but I believe this is a modern-ish compact utility tractor.  If so, it is
quite likely to have a solid-state voltage regulator built into the
alternator and you'll risk burning it up.

SO

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:26 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:

> Thanks Dennis, it is all by key. I remember as a teenager, I had to run a
> skid steer, and to cut off the air to turn it off.
>
> Regards,
> Mike M
>
> On 11/15/2021 10:29 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>
> Mike
>
> What turns the fuel on and off. If it is a key there is probably a
> solenoid somewhere. My 97 Cummins 5.9 in my old dually has a solenoid to
> turn fuel on and off. If you have a mechanical lever to turn the engine on
> and off you are OK.
> I am not aware of anything you would hurt by jumping IH.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:24 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> <meulenms at gmx.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Hi Dennis, thanks for the response, mine is a Tier 3 diesel engine that
> is not electronically  controlled  as far as I know. Can I do any damage by
> trying to start it without the battery installed? I will follow up with the
> dealer tomorrow as well. I will also insulate the +/-  leads so they don't
> touch anything.
>
> Thank-you,
> Mike M
>
> On 11/15/2021 7:12 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Jumping a diesel w/o battery depends on if you have any electrons that
> control or turn on things like fuel solenoids, etc.  Old engines with
> manual fuel shut off’s and mechanical injectors should work fine. Newer
> ones with more electrons controlling stuff will not run w/o a battery
> somehow hooked up.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 15, 2021, at 6:06 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> <meulenms at gmx.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Tore out the battery today, tons of corrosion, to the point that the
> positive nut for the clamp was almost reduced by 75%, I had to pound it
> off. I thought I had things cleaned up but it appears that was not the
> case. I'll go battery shopping tomorrow, and hopefully I can find something
> close. Meanwhile I have the battery case coated in baking soda, to help
> neutralize the leaking battery acid. Question for the list can I jump a
> diesel, without the battery installed? I'm running out of time in Michigan,
> and all our water is shut off except the barn frost free.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike M
>
> On 11/15/2021 3:37 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>
> Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At this point even
> doing simple repairs are becoming hard if not impossible for the average
> DIYer due to the way the companies are building them. There are some out
> there now that have “sealed drivelines” where they have no dipsticks or
> easily accessible fill plugs to even do routine service and you need a scan
> tool to even check fluid levels!
>
>
>
> *From: *Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>
>
>
> Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles, thanks SteveW!
>
>
>
> Steve O.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W. <swilliams268 at frontier.com>
> wrote:
>
> Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the battery to see if it stays
> running” test that used to be done. On any vehicles newer than about 1998
> that is almost a guaranteed way to destroy the charging system. On most
> cars and trucks built from there on up, the voltage regulator is part of
> the engines control unit. Those are not cheap to replace. Another no-no is
> to jump start a newer vehicle without charging the battery or leaving a
> jump pack on it, many of the newer vehicles will read the bad battery and
> crank the voltage and amperage way up to try to compensate for the low
> battery, that can kill the alternator, and if the battery is failing it can
> blow it up from the excessive charging. I can’t count how many vehicles I
> had to repair once the bug measures let people start using their cars
> again, after they were parked for 3-4 months.
>
> Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of the over engineered
> modern rolling computers made from about 2017 and up, Check really close in
> service information before you replace an old battery, many of those need
> to have the battery initialized into the system because the ECU has
> adjusted itself as the old battery wore out, you need to tell it that you
> are installing the new battery and what it is in CCA and type, be it a
> flooded cell, AGM, Lithium or other as they all use slightly different
> charging routines and it’s easy to cook a battery if it’s set up wrong. To
> go with that, many of the parts stores offer installation as long as you
> have one that is reasonably easy, there are quite a few that are not due to
> the battery locations. OH and for the import owners, be sure which battery
> you actually need as many of the high dollar brands use 2 or three
> different batteries scattered around the vehicle. Mercedes for instance has
> one in the trunk, one under the hood and one tucked in behind the dash!
>
> For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is another tip. On cars
> that have lots of options or anything 2017 and up, the security systems can
> be a royal pain if you remove the battery, they can lock you out of
> everything so you end up towing it to a dealer to have it flashed back. The
> way around this is simple. Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse box
> or if it has them the jumper terminals mounted out in the open. Now grab a
> power supply or a fully charged battery and connect it up to those, in the
> case of using a spare battery, connect it, start the engine and let it run
> for 20 minutes or so, that will equalize the charge in the add-on battery,
> verify that the charging circuit is working as well, simply by measuring
> the voltage with the engine off, then again with it running. With a power
> supply (NOT A COMMON CHARGER) you just dial it up to the voltage the
> service info says or at least 13 volts. Now you can disconnect the main
> battery without losing any settings or programming because the ECU never
> sees it disconnected. Just remember that the Positive terminal will still
> be hot when you do this, my SOP is to pull the ground side, then take a
> heavy rubber/plastic baggy and as soon as the pos. comes of it goes into
> the bag to keep it safe.
>
>
>
> *From: *Henry Miller <hank at millerfarm.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
> *To: *at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>
>
>
> Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the alternator on and off.  Weird
> when driving to see the voltmeter not hold constant. (This was a rental
> car, I almost turned around for one that worked before I figured it out )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>   Henry Miller
>
>   hank at millerfarm.com
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>
> > Quick check is just battery voltage not running versus running.  If your
>
> > alternator is putting out something, voltage is higher when running.  If
>
> > the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same or a bit lower when
>
> > running (probably lower because the battery gave up some juice to crank
> it
>
> > over).  If you are wondering if the alternator is somewhere in between
>
> > healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads as you can while
>
> > running.  Alternator should handle those loads and still give the battery
>
> > terminals something over 13.5V.  (Because it is supplying other things in
>
> > addition to battery recharge, you may not see the whole 14-ish volts, but
>
> > it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing charge into the battery.
>
> > Hope this helps.
>
> >
>
> > SO
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming out the alternator?
>
> >>
>
> >> Mike M
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Hi Mike:
>
> >>
>
> >> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but I'd probably ask the
>
> >> Google for backup on that.
>
> >>
>
> >> A good range for battery terminal voltage engine-running is 13.6V-14.4V.
>
> >> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature compensation, dropping
>
> >> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is easier to charge and
>
> >> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the cold (when they're not
> as
>
> >> eager to accept charge).  Not all alternators do this, but I just
> wanted to
>
> >> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>
> >>
>
> >> SO
>
> >>
>
> >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some of the battery
> chambers
>
> >>> with distilled water because some seemed a little low, and it leaked
>
> >>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way to clean that up? I
> know
>
> >>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be across the terminals
> with the
>
> >>> engine running?
>
> >>>
>
> >>> Thanks,
>
> >>> Mike M
>
> >>>
>
> >>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>> The question is, what happened?  Is your alternator not charging?
>
> >>>
>
> >>> SO
>
> >>>
>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up and the terminals
> where
>
> >>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the terminals was 13.3
> and
>
> >>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it overnight, and will give
> it a
>
> >>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Regards,
>
> >>>> Mike M
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts with a digital volt
> meter,
>
> >>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on overnight, and it's now
> up to
>
> >>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer.  It's raining here today so
> I'm
>
> >>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check the grounds for sure!
>
> >>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know how it turns out.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Regards,
>
> >>>> Mike M
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has typed that over the
>
> >>>> years!
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that simply says bad
>
> >>>> connection.  I’m not sure why the focus on a bad battery just yet.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Steve O.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson <
> robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>
> >>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> 
>
> >>>> Check the grounds.
>
> >>>> Check the grounds.
>
> >>>> Check the grounds.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> .
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could back it up onto a hill,
>
> >>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Mike M
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Mike,
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected for 20-30 minutes
> before
>
> >>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the charger on all night.
> Even with
>
> >>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may die when you
> disconnect the
>
> >>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but the battery probably
> won’t
>
> >>>>> take a charge.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Carl
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight. It's an Exide Select
>
> >>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE with 180 minutes of
>
> >>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my truck but no luck it
> would
>
> >>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and about fell out of my
> chair.
>
> >>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of stock. Does anyone
> have
>
> >>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was manufactured in 2014, so I
> guess
>
> >>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Is
>
> >>>>>> there
>
> >>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> Thank you,
>
> >>>>>> Mike M
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> --
>
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>
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>
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
>
> >>>> --
>
> >>>> --
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Francis Robinson
>
> >>>> aka "farmer"
>
> >>>> Central Indiana USA
>
> >>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
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