[AT] Tractor battery

Mike M meulenms at gmx.com
Mon Nov 15 20:26:33 PST 2021


Thanks Dennis, it is all by key. I remember as a teenager, I had to run
a skid steer, and to cut off the air to turn it off.

Regards,
Mike M

On 11/15/2021 10:29 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
> Mike
>
> What turns the fuel on and off. If it is a key there is probably a
> solenoid somewhere. My 97 Cummins 5.9 in my old dually has a solenoid
> to turn fuel on and off. If you have a mechanical lever to turn the
> engine on and off you are OK.
> I am not aware of anything you would hurt by jumping IH.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:24 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Dennis, thanks for the response, mine is a Tier 3 diesel engine
>> that is not electronically  controlled as far as I know. Can I do any
>> damage by trying to start it without the battery installed? I will
>> follow up with the dealer tomorrow as well. I will also insulate the
>> +/-  leads so they don't touch anything.
>>
>> Thank-you,
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 11/15/2021 7:12 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Jumping a diesel w/o battery depends on if you have any electrons
>>> that control or turn on things like fuel solenoids, etc.  Old
>>> engines with manual fuel shut off’s and mechanical injectors should
>>> work fine. Newer ones with more electrons controlling stuff will not
>>> run w/o a battery somehow hooked up.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 6:06 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Tore out the battery today, tons of corrosion, to the point that
>>>> the positive nut for the clamp was almost reduced by 75%, I had to
>>>> pound it off. I thought I had things cleaned up but it appears that
>>>> was not the case. I'll go battery shopping tomorrow, and hopefully
>>>> I can find something close. Meanwhile I have the battery case
>>>> coated in baking soda, to help neutralize the leaking battery acid.
>>>> Question for the list can I jump a diesel, without the battery
>>>> installed? I'm running out of time in Michigan, and all our water
>>>> is shut off except the barn frost free.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> On 11/15/2021 3:37 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At this
>>>>> point even doing simple repairs are becoming hard if not
>>>>> impossible for the average DIYer due to the way the companies are
>>>>> building them. There are some out there now that have “sealed
>>>>> drivelines” where they have no dipsticks or easily accessible fill
>>>>> plugs to even do routine service and you need a scan tool to even
>>>>> check fluid levels!
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *Stephen Offiler <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
>>>>> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>>
>>>>> Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles, thanks SteveW!
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve O.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W.
>>>>> <swilliams268 at frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the battery to see
>>>>>     if it stays running” test that used to be done. On any
>>>>>     vehicles newer than about 1998 that is almost a guaranteed way
>>>>>     to destroy the charging system. On most cars and trucks built
>>>>>     from there on up, the voltage regulator is part of the engines
>>>>>     control unit. Those are not cheap to replace. Another no-no is
>>>>>     to jump start a newer vehicle without charging the battery or
>>>>>     leaving a jump pack on it, many of the newer vehicles will
>>>>>     read the bad battery and crank the voltage and amperage way up
>>>>>     to try to compensate for the low battery, that can kill the
>>>>>     alternator, and if the battery is failing it can blow it up
>>>>>     from the excessive charging. I can’t count how many vehicles I
>>>>>     had to repair once the bug measures let people start using
>>>>>     their cars again, after they were parked for 3-4 months.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of the over
>>>>>     engineered modern rolling computers made from about 2017 and
>>>>>     up, Check really close in service information before you
>>>>>     replace an old battery, many of those need to have the battery
>>>>>     initialized into the system because the ECU has adjusted
>>>>>     itself as the old battery wore out, you need to tell it that
>>>>>     you are installing the new battery and what it is in CCA and
>>>>>     type, be it a flooded cell, AGM, Lithium or other as they all
>>>>>     use slightly different charging routines and it’s easy to cook
>>>>>     a battery if it’s set up wrong. To go with that, many of the
>>>>>     parts stores offer installation as long as you have one that
>>>>>     is reasonably easy, there are quite a few that are not due to
>>>>>     the battery locations. OH and for the import owners, be sure
>>>>>     which battery you actually need as many of the high dollar
>>>>>     brands use 2 or three different batteries scattered around the
>>>>>     vehicle. Mercedes for instance has one in the trunk, one under
>>>>>     the hood and one tucked in behind the dash!
>>>>>
>>>>>     For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is another
>>>>>     tip. On cars that have lots of options or anything 2017 and
>>>>>     up, the security systems can be a royal pain if you remove the
>>>>>     battery, they can lock you out of everything so you end up
>>>>>     towing it to a dealer to have it flashed back. The way around
>>>>>     this is simple. Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse box
>>>>>     or if it has them the jumper terminals mounted out in the
>>>>>     open. Now grab a power supply or a fully charged battery and
>>>>>     connect it up to those, in the case of using a spare battery,
>>>>>     connect it, start the engine and let it run for 20 minutes or
>>>>>     so, that will equalize the charge in the add-on battery,
>>>>>     verify that the charging circuit is working as well, simply by
>>>>>     measuring the voltage with the engine off, then again with it
>>>>>     running. With a power supply (NOT A COMMON CHARGER) you just
>>>>>     dial it up to the voltage the service info says or at least 13
>>>>>     volts. Now you can disconnect the main battery without losing
>>>>>     any settings or programming because the ECU never sees it
>>>>>     disconnected. Just remember that the Positive terminal will
>>>>>     still be hot when you do this, my SOP is to pull the ground
>>>>>     side, then take a heavy rubber/plastic baggy and as soon as
>>>>>     the pos. comes of it goes into the bag to keep it safe.
>>>>>
>>>>>     *From: *Henry Miller <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
>>>>>     *Sent: *Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
>>>>>     *To: *at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>     *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>>
>>>>>     Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the alternator on and
>>>>>     off.  Weird when driving to see the voltmeter not hold
>>>>>     constant. (This was a rental car, I almost turned around for
>>>>>     one that worked before I figured it out )
>>>>>
>>>>>     --
>>>>>
>>>>>       Henry Miller
>>>>>
>>>>>     hank at millerfarm.com
>>>>>
>>>>>     On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     > Quick check is just battery voltage not running versus
>>>>>     running.  If your
>>>>>
>>>>>     > alternator is putting out something, voltage is higher when
>>>>>     running.  If
>>>>>
>>>>>     > the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same or a bit
>>>>>     lower when
>>>>>
>>>>>     > running (probably lower because the battery gave up some
>>>>>     juice to crank it
>>>>>
>>>>>     > over).  If you are wondering if the alternator is somewhere
>>>>>     in between
>>>>>
>>>>>     > healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads as you
>>>>>     can while
>>>>>
>>>>>     > running.  Alternator should handle those loads and still
>>>>>     give the battery
>>>>>
>>>>>     > terminals something over 13.5V. (Because it is supplying
>>>>>     other things in
>>>>>
>>>>>     > addition to battery recharge, you may not see the whole
>>>>>     14-ish volts, but
>>>>>
>>>>>     > it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing charge into
>>>>>     the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>     > Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >
>>>>>
>>>>>     > SO
>>>>>
>>>>>     >
>>>>>
>>>>>     >
>>>>>
>>>>>     > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming out the
>>>>>     alternator?
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> Hi Mike:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but I'd
>>>>>     probably ask the
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> Google for backup on that.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> A good range for battery terminal voltage engine-running is
>>>>>     13.6V-14.4V.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature
>>>>>     compensation, dropping
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is easier
>>>>>     to charge and
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the cold (when
>>>>>     they're not as
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> eager to accept charge).  Not all alternators do this, but
>>>>>     I just wanted to
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some of the
>>>>>     battery chambers
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> with distilled water because some seemed a little low, and
>>>>>     it leaked
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way to clean
>>>>>     that up? I know
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be across the
>>>>>     terminals with the
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> engine running?
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> The question is, what happened?  Is your alternator not
>>>>>     charging?
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up and the
>>>>>     terminals where
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the
>>>>>     terminals was 13.3 and
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it overnight, and
>>>>>     will give it a
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts with a
>>>>>     digital volt meter,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on overnight,
>>>>>     and it's now up to
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer.  It's raining
>>>>>     here today so I'm
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check the
>>>>>     grounds for sure!
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know how it
>>>>>     turns out.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has typed
>>>>>     that over the
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> years!
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that simply
>>>>>     says bad
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> connection.  I’m not sure why the focus on a bad battery
>>>>>     just yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Steve O.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson
>>>>>     <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could back it up
>>>>>     onto a hill,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected for 20-30
>>>>>     minutes before
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the charger on
>>>>>     all night. Even with
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may die when
>>>>>     you disconnect the
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but the
>>>>>     battery probably won’t
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> take a charge.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> Carl
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight. It's an
>>>>>     Exide Select
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE with 180
>>>>>     minutes of
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my truck but
>>>>>     no luck it would
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and about fell
>>>>>     out of my chair.
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of stock.
>>>>>     Does anyone have
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was manufactured in
>>>>>     2014, so I guess
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be greatly
>>>>>     appreciated. Is
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>>> --
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>>>>>     >>>> --
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>>>>>     >>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> aka "farmer"
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
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