[AT] Tractor battery
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Mon Nov 15 20:26:33 PST 2021
Thanks Dennis, it is all by key. I remember as a teenager, I had to run
a skid steer, and to cut off the air to turn it off.
Regards,
Mike M
On 11/15/2021 10:29 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
> Mike
>
> What turns the fuel on and off. If it is a key there is probably a
> solenoid somewhere. My 97 Cummins 5.9 in my old dually has a solenoid
> to turn fuel on and off. If you have a mechanical lever to turn the
> engine on and off you are OK.
> I am not aware of anything you would hurt by jumping IH.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:24 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dennis, thanks for the response, mine is a Tier 3 diesel engine
>> that is not electronically controlled as far as I know. Can I do any
>> damage by trying to start it without the battery installed? I will
>> follow up with the dealer tomorrow as well. I will also insulate the
>> +/- leads so they don't touch anything.
>>
>> Thank-you,
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 11/15/2021 7:12 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Jumping a diesel w/o battery depends on if you have any electrons
>>> that control or turn on things like fuel solenoids, etc. Old
>>> engines with manual fuel shut off’s and mechanical injectors should
>>> work fine. Newer ones with more electrons controlling stuff will not
>>> run w/o a battery somehow hooked up.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 6:06 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tore out the battery today, tons of corrosion, to the point that
>>>> the positive nut for the clamp was almost reduced by 75%, I had to
>>>> pound it off. I thought I had things cleaned up but it appears that
>>>> was not the case. I'll go battery shopping tomorrow, and hopefully
>>>> I can find something close. Meanwhile I have the battery case
>>>> coated in baking soda, to help neutralize the leaking battery acid.
>>>> Question for the list can I jump a diesel, without the battery
>>>> installed? I'm running out of time in Michigan, and all our water
>>>> is shut off except the barn frost free.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> On 11/15/2021 3:37 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At this
>>>>> point even doing simple repairs are becoming hard if not
>>>>> impossible for the average DIYer due to the way the companies are
>>>>> building them. There are some out there now that have “sealed
>>>>> drivelines” where they have no dipsticks or easily accessible fill
>>>>> plugs to even do routine service and you need a scan tool to even
>>>>> check fluid levels!
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *Stephen Offiler <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
>>>>> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>>
>>>>> Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles, thanks SteveW!
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve O.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W.
>>>>> <swilliams268 at frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the battery to see
>>>>> if it stays running” test that used to be done. On any
>>>>> vehicles newer than about 1998 that is almost a guaranteed way
>>>>> to destroy the charging system. On most cars and trucks built
>>>>> from there on up, the voltage regulator is part of the engines
>>>>> control unit. Those are not cheap to replace. Another no-no is
>>>>> to jump start a newer vehicle without charging the battery or
>>>>> leaving a jump pack on it, many of the newer vehicles will
>>>>> read the bad battery and crank the voltage and amperage way up
>>>>> to try to compensate for the low battery, that can kill the
>>>>> alternator, and if the battery is failing it can blow it up
>>>>> from the excessive charging. I can’t count how many vehicles I
>>>>> had to repair once the bug measures let people start using
>>>>> their cars again, after they were parked for 3-4 months.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of the over
>>>>> engineered modern rolling computers made from about 2017 and
>>>>> up, Check really close in service information before you
>>>>> replace an old battery, many of those need to have the battery
>>>>> initialized into the system because the ECU has adjusted
>>>>> itself as the old battery wore out, you need to tell it that
>>>>> you are installing the new battery and what it is in CCA and
>>>>> type, be it a flooded cell, AGM, Lithium or other as they all
>>>>> use slightly different charging routines and it’s easy to cook
>>>>> a battery if it’s set up wrong. To go with that, many of the
>>>>> parts stores offer installation as long as you have one that
>>>>> is reasonably easy, there are quite a few that are not due to
>>>>> the battery locations. OH and for the import owners, be sure
>>>>> which battery you actually need as many of the high dollar
>>>>> brands use 2 or three different batteries scattered around the
>>>>> vehicle. Mercedes for instance has one in the trunk, one under
>>>>> the hood and one tucked in behind the dash!
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is another
>>>>> tip. On cars that have lots of options or anything 2017 and
>>>>> up, the security systems can be a royal pain if you remove the
>>>>> battery, they can lock you out of everything so you end up
>>>>> towing it to a dealer to have it flashed back. The way around
>>>>> this is simple. Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse box
>>>>> or if it has them the jumper terminals mounted out in the
>>>>> open. Now grab a power supply or a fully charged battery and
>>>>> connect it up to those, in the case of using a spare battery,
>>>>> connect it, start the engine and let it run for 20 minutes or
>>>>> so, that will equalize the charge in the add-on battery,
>>>>> verify that the charging circuit is working as well, simply by
>>>>> measuring the voltage with the engine off, then again with it
>>>>> running. With a power supply (NOT A COMMON CHARGER) you just
>>>>> dial it up to the voltage the service info says or at least 13
>>>>> volts. Now you can disconnect the main battery without losing
>>>>> any settings or programming because the ECU never sees it
>>>>> disconnected. Just remember that the Positive terminal will
>>>>> still be hot when you do this, my SOP is to pull the ground
>>>>> side, then take a heavy rubber/plastic baggy and as soon as
>>>>> the pos. comes of it goes into the bag to keep it safe.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *Henry Miller <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
>>>>> *Sent: *Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
>>>>> *To: *at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>>>
>>>>> Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the alternator on and
>>>>> off. Weird when driving to see the voltmeter not hold
>>>>> constant. (This was a rental car, I almost turned around for
>>>>> one that worked before I figured it out )
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Henry Miller
>>>>>
>>>>> hank at millerfarm.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Quick check is just battery voltage not running versus
>>>>> running. If your
>>>>>
>>>>> > alternator is putting out something, voltage is higher when
>>>>> running. If
>>>>>
>>>>> > the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same or a bit
>>>>> lower when
>>>>>
>>>>> > running (probably lower because the battery gave up some
>>>>> juice to crank it
>>>>>
>>>>> > over). If you are wondering if the alternator is somewhere
>>>>> in between
>>>>>
>>>>> > healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads as you
>>>>> can while
>>>>>
>>>>> > running. Alternator should handle those loads and still
>>>>> give the battery
>>>>>
>>>>> > terminals something over 13.5V. (Because it is supplying
>>>>> other things in
>>>>>
>>>>> > addition to battery recharge, you may not see the whole
>>>>> 14-ish volts, but
>>>>>
>>>>> > it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing charge into
>>>>> the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> > SO
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming out the
>>>>> alternator?
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Hi Mike:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but I'd
>>>>> probably ask the
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Google for backup on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> A good range for battery terminal voltage engine-running is
>>>>> 13.6V-14.4V.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature
>>>>> compensation, dropping
>>>>>
>>>>> >> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is easier
>>>>> to charge and
>>>>>
>>>>> >> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the cold (when
>>>>> they're not as
>>>>>
>>>>> >> eager to accept charge). Not all alternators do this, but
>>>>> I just wanted to
>>>>>
>>>>> >> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> SO
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some of the
>>>>> battery chambers
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> with distilled water because some seemed a little low, and
>>>>> it leaked
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way to clean
>>>>> that up? I know
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be across the
>>>>> terminals with the
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> engine running?
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> The question is, what happened? Is your alternator not
>>>>> charging?
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up and the
>>>>> terminals where
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the
>>>>> terminals was 13.3 and
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it overnight, and
>>>>> will give it a
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts with a
>>>>> digital volt meter,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on overnight,
>>>>> and it's now up to
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer. It's raining
>>>>> here today so I'm
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check the
>>>>> grounds for sure!
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know how it
>>>>> turns out.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has typed
>>>>> that over the
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> years!
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that simply
>>>>> says bad
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> connection. I’m not sure why the focus on a bad battery
>>>>> just yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Steve O.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson
>>>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could back it up
>>>>> onto a hill,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected for 20-30
>>>>> minutes before
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the charger on
>>>>> all night. Even with
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may die when
>>>>> you disconnect the
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but the
>>>>> battery probably won’t
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> take a charge.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Carl
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight. It's an
>>>>> Exide Select
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE with 180
>>>>> minutes of
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my truck but
>>>>> no luck it would
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and about fell
>>>>> out of my chair.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of stock.
>>>>> Does anyone have
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was manufactured in
>>>>> 2014, so I guess
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be greatly
>>>>> appreciated. Is
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> --
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> >>>> --
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>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> aka "farmer"
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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