[AT] Air conditioning problems In my parts getter...

[Brad Loomis]

Ammonia~ natural, Non-ODP. You just have to get past the aroma. :)

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 7:18 PM Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:

> Steve:
>
> I read up on using propane as a refrigerant and it needs some isobutane
> for some reason.  There is a formula on the internet to make it.  You
> have to get some propane lighter fuel and inject it onto the tank of
> propane to get the mix right.  I have read that rail car refrigeration
> systems use propane.  It is accepted as a refrigerant in non automotive
> systems...  It has about the right pressures to work as a refrigerant...
>
> It sure is funny that there is no way to save the planet and maintain a
> decent comfort level without breaking the bank...
>
> Cecil
>
> On 6/12/2021 10:55 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> > Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> R1234y, and it is expensive.  I imagine it is developed by Dupont and
> >> they need to get their money back.  The patents ran out on 134, so
> >> they had to bring in something expensive again. It is also flammable,
> >> So, why couldn't propane be usuable for refrigerant??  It is also
> >> flammable..  But a lot cheaper....
> >>
> >> Cecil
> >
> > Now Cecil, you can't say that, they brought out R1234YF to save the
> > planet for the little children.  Just because the patent expired on
> > 134A and Dupont was pushing to replace it with the newly patented
> > material had nothing to do with it. Shame on you for thinking they
> > only want the money, it's to save the planet... LOL
> >
> > This question actually came up at one of the classes on this crap a
> > while back, the "Save the planet" answer was the party line, but most
> > of us had been through the same BS back when R-12 was dropped and
> > commented that at least then Dupont was honest and said that they were
> > pushing R134a due to the patent issue.
> >
> > The one trick is that if the price on the 1234yf doesn't drop a lot,
> > there are likely going to be many conversions to R134a. If you pull
> > the R1234yf out, fully flush the system and swap out the drier to be
> > sure you got all the oil you can recharge with PAG and R134a and have
> > the system work just fine as the two are almost identical in
> > operational characteristics.
> >
> > Just don't get caught because the EPA has tagged R1234yf differently,
> > it's now considered as part of the emissions system on the vehicles
> > that use it because the companies were handed carbon offsets for using
> > it. So swapping it out is now a violation of the Clean Air Act.
> > The fines start at about $10,000.00 after they are done dragging you
> > through the system.
> >
> > As for propane, there was an Australian, Ian MaClaine-Cross pushing
> > his hydrocarbon based replacement as a drop in for R12 who managed to
> > blow himself up on camera, during a demonstration showing just how
> > safe it was.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0K1WPCWm2k
> >
> > The resulting charges over it -
> > https://vasa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2005-May.pdf
> >
> >
> > Other MACS demonstrations of the same type -
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO47SzxJmV0
> >
> >
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