[AT] Air conditioning problems In my parts getter...

[Mike M]

I can't for life of think of how you would get caught doing that.

Mike M

On 6/12/2021 4:53 PM, Mark Johnson wrote:
> Cecil:
>
> This has been known about propane and isobutane for many years...but
> in some states, putting that blend into auto a/c would earn you
> thousands of dollars in fines, due to the perceived safety hazard. The
> way that 1970's and earlier cars leaked refrigerant I'd say that the
> penalties were not a bad idea; maybe it's less true today. IIRC, 80%
> propane and 20% isobutane has almost exactly the same refrigerant
> curves as R-12, and it will carry the same lubricants through a
> system, too. But if I still owned a vehicle built for R-12, I wouldn't
> do it!
>
> Mark J
>
> On 6/12/2021 3:20 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>> Steve:
>>
>> I read up on using propane as a refrigerant and it needs some
>> isobutane for some reason.  There is a formula on the internet to
>> make it.  You have to get some propane lighter fuel and inject it
>> onto the tank of propane to get the mix right.  I have read that rail
>> car refrigeration systems use propane.  It is accepted as a
>> refrigerant in non automotive systems...  It has about the right
>> pressures to work as a refrigerant...
>>
>> It sure is funny that there is no way to save the planet and maintain
>> a decent comfort level without breaking the bank...
>>
>> Cecil
>>
>> On 6/12/2021 10:55 AM, Steve W. wrote:
>>> Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> R1234y, and it is expensive.  I imagine it is developed by Dupont
>>>> and they need to get their money back.  The patents ran out on 134,
>>>> so they had to bring in something expensive again. It is also
>>>> flammable, So, why couldn't propane be usuable for refrigerant?? 
>>>> It is also flammable..  But a lot cheaper....
>>>>
>>>> Cecil
>>>
>>> Now Cecil, you can't say that, they brought out R1234YF to save the
>>> planet for the little children.  Just because the patent expired on
>>> 134A and Dupont was pushing to replace it with the newly patented
>>> material had nothing to do with it. Shame on you for thinking they
>>> only want the money, it's to save the planet... LOL
>>>
>>> This question actually came up at one of the classes on this crap a
>>> while back, the "Save the planet" answer was the party line, but
>>> most of us had been through the same BS back when R-12 was dropped
>>> and commented that at least then Dupont was honest and said that
>>> they were pushing R134a due to the patent issue.
>>>
>>> The one trick is that if the price on the 1234yf doesn't drop a lot,
>>> there are likely going to be many conversions to R134a. If you pull
>>> the R1234yf out, fully flush the system and swap out the drier to be
>>> sure you got all the oil you can recharge with PAG and R134a and
>>> have the system work just fine as the two are almost identical in
>>> operational characteristics.
>>>
>>> Just don't get caught because the EPA has tagged R1234yf
>>> differently, it's now considered as part of the emissions system on
>>> the vehicles that use it because the companies were handed carbon
>>> offsets for using it. So swapping it out is now a violation of the
>>> Clean Air Act.
>>> The fines start at about $10,000.00 after they are done dragging you
>>> through the system.
>>>
>>> As for propane, there was an Australian, Ian MaClaine-Cross pushing
>>> his hydrocarbon based replacement as a drop in for R12 who managed
>>> to blow himself up on camera, during a demonstration showing just
>>> how safe it was.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0K1WPCWm2k
>>>
>>> The resulting charges over it -
>>> https://vasa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2005-May.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Other MACS demonstrations of the same type -
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO47SzxJmV0
>>>
>>>
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