[AT] Poison Ivy
Mark Johnson
markjohnson100 at centurylink.net
Tue Jun 23 04:40:08 PDT 2020
While I am not generally a big fan of dangerous chemicals, there is this
cautionary tale from the events leading up to the banning of DDT: Soil,
plant, and animal samples had been tested that appeared to show the
presence of DDT 'almost everywhere' - sometime after the ban went in
place, someone pulled a sealed soil sample that had been frozen in a
glass bottle since around 1900 and ran it through the same test.
The results: Positive for DDT. Unless someone in that soils lab had a
time machine, clearly not possible - the test for chlorinated
hydrocarbons was, if not flat out wrong, at least too broad.
The patent for glyphosate itself must have expired long ago, BTW: I have
a weed science textbook dated 1972 that describes the chemical, its
uses, and its cautions. Monsanto's 'brand name' Roundup is no longer
unique in its chemical content - the patentable portions must be in the
surfactants and the consumer-oriented delivery packaging.
For myself: I certainly wouldn't drink the stuff, but its acute toxicity
is on the same order as table salt. I am very suspicious about claims of
great bodily harm that don't show up until the chemical has been on the
market for 40 years and more.
Just my 1/50 of a dollar...
Mark J
On 6/22/2020 4:34 PM, Mogrits wrote:
> Cecil,
>
> Sorry I'm so late on this but been busy helping my wife rehab. If you
> go looking into the story of DDTs ban it is pretty eye-opening.
> Definitely not science based. The same crowd that claimed it thinned
> bird shells also worried about a "population bomb" if malaria was
> eliminated. I don't think either company was motivated to get DDT or
> Roundup banned because of expired patents, least of all Monsanto with
> Roundup- they stand to pay out a lot of money if these ridiculous
> lawsuits prevail. The suit that started this rash of US suits was not
> a US lawsuit, and was subject to a lot of interference.
>
> Warren
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:03 AM Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net
> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>
> The American council on Science & Health noted a study where
> humans were fed a capsule of as much as 35mg of DDT for 18 months
> had no ill effects. In fact they list its toxicity as about equal
> to caffeine. A funy thing about looking into research.... The
> type of rats used on the DDT study were predisposed to cancer both
> in the DDT group and the control group. This is the same type of
> rat used in the research on Glyphosate the active ingredient in
> Roundup. Due to the humidity and the heat wave in central OK, I
> wish we had some DDT to use on the mosquitoes. If you pull under
> a shade tree to work on equipment, the mosquitoes are mounting an
> aerial attack and the ticks are coming on foot.
>
> Like I said, you ain't supposed to bathe in it...
> Cecil
>
> On 6/14/2020 6:06 PM, Al Jones wrote:
>> I agree Cecil, it’s not politics, it’s science.
>>
>> Roundup is probably the safest herbicide there is and I’m not the
>> least bit scared of it, but I don’t put it in my coffee either!
>>
>> Al
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Cecil Bearden
>>> <crbearden at copper.net> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I will not get into a political fight with anyone here, but I
>>> remember using DDT as a kid and my Dad and grandfather used it
>>> also. They lived long lives and finally died due to a Dr.
>>> screwup. DDT was determined to make eagle eggs have a thinner
>>> shell when the problem was either genetic or nutritional. It
>>> was a Judge who determined the fate of DDT. Roundup was
>>> determined to be possibly carcinogenic by a court, not a
>>> certified laboratory. I think both decisions were motivated by
>>> greed on the part of the chemical manufacturer, not
>>> comprehensive real laboratory tests. DDT had been around so
>>> long the patents had run out. Same with Roundup.
>>>
>>> That said, I use chemicals sparingly, but when I use them I use
>>> the maximum rate according to label directions. Then,
>>> immediately when I finish I throw the clothes in the washer and
>>> wash twice. I immediately take a shower with cold water first
>>> then hot., then I wash the equipment and afterwards wash my
>>> clothes and take a shower again.. My Dad & I sprayed 2-4D and
>>> 2-4-5T back in the late 60's early 70's with no cab on the
>>> tractor. We should have taken more precautions than we did, but
>>> we washed our hands a lot.....
>>>
>>> You just don't take a bath in it, and use a little common sense....
>>>
>>> Cecil
>>>
>>> On 6/14/2020 7:10 AM, toma at risingnet.net
>>> <mailto:toma at risingnet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't use Roundup any more at all. 2-4 D is certainly no
>>>> safer. 2-4 D is closely related to 2-4-5 T, the famous agent
>>>> orange that killed all the Vietnam vets. As I recall 2- 4 D was
>>>> known as agent yellow before all the carcenogenic effects were
>>>> known. My grandfather died of Hodgkin's Disease after using
>>>> 2-4-5 T.
>>>>
>>>> From the write-up I read about Triclopyr it has been
>>>> extensively tested in rats and found to have no carcenogenic
>>>> properties. I may consider trying it because we have so much
>>>> Poison Oak around here.I would still be very careful with it.
>>>>
>>>> Triclopyr might be a good safer alternative to 2-4 D because it
>>>> can be mixed to effect broadleafs only. I fear there is no
>>>> safer alternative to Roundup for use on Roundup ready crops.
>>>> Better get out your cultivators boys.
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from myMail for Android
>>>> Saturday, 13 June 2020, 10:30PM -07:00 from Mike M
>>>> meulenms at gmx.com <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used to use Round Up on everything, since the recent
>>>> finding that
>>>> it may be carcinogenic, I still use it, but am more careful
>>>> with it, and use 2-4D when I can. This doesn't protect me
>>>> from the
>>>> farmer across the road who sprays all 250 acres with it,
>>>> but that's
>>>> sprayed from an enclosed cab with specialized equipment, not a
>>>> backpack sprayer.
>>>> > Mike M
>>>> >On 6/13/2020 7:06 PM, Spencer Yost
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> I doubt it’s about the money - more about an approach
>>>> with less of
>>>> a chemical footprint. I know zip about that chemical
>>>> foot print
>>>> of the compounds discussed here so I leave it to others
>>>> to decide
>>>> if that chemical footprint is worth a concern or not. I also
>>>> leave everyone with the reminder that not all chemical
>>>> footprints
>>>> are well known, regardless of the labeling and short term
>>>> general
>>>> consensus.
>>>>
>>>> >>Personally I just use roundup on the low, bushy poison ivy.
>>>> The climbing vines I hack a 1’ section out of it.
>>>> When that
>>>> vine re-emerges I hit it with round up. Works great.
>>>> >>I have to have round-up for the grasses and weeds that try to
>>>> tear up the edges and cracks of our private asphalt
>>>> road. So the
>>>> cost of a little extra round-up for poison ivy control
>>>> is of no
>>>> financial/chemical footprint concern to me.
>>>> >>I have very little reaction to poison ivy. I pretty much have
>>>> to roll around in it for me to even get a few blisters.
>>>> But my
>>>> poor wife really suffers. She generally gets it in
>>>> early spring.
>>>> I assume she’s getting into the roots of the poison ivy
>>>> while
>>>> she’s planting annuals and working beds before the low
>>>> bushy
>>>> stuff emerges and can been seen/identified.
>>>> >>Spencer
>>>> >>Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >>>On Jun 13, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Stephen
>>>> Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>> <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>How much do you pay for vinegar? Ortho Max
>>>> Poison Ivy is 8% Triclopyr and you mix 4 oz to the
>>>> gallon. A 16oz jug is $8.00, so $2.00 per
>>>> gallon. I'm
>>>> sure it's a better value in larger quantities.
>>>> I don't
>>>> think I can find vinegar as cheap as $2 a gallon.
>>>>
>>>> >>>SO
>>>> >>>On Fri, Jun 12, 2020
>>>> at 11:34 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>> I've read of the Triclopyr as well but it's
>>>> pricey for the area I need to cover. I'm
>>>> going to
>>>> try the vinegar solution first because its
>>>> cheap
>>>> and so am I. Brush be gone would be fine
>>>> if I had a
>>>> small area to clear, but I don't. I'll
>>>> report back
>>>> the results. Thanks all for the info.
>>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>> >>>>On 6/12/2020 6:22 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>> >>>>>Ortho Brush-B-Gone (Triclopyr)
>>>> >>>>>On Fri, Jun
>>>> 12, 2020 at 5:08 PM Mike M
>>>> <meulenms at gmx.com> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>I have
>>>> scads of poison ivy around my place,
>>>> anyone
>>>> have a secret recipe
>>>> >>>>>> to nuke this stuff? I'm not
>>>> overly susceptible
>>>> to it, but my daughter
>>>> >>>>>> is. Also I've read that your
>>>> reaction to it
>>>> can change over time.
>>>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>>>> >>>>>> Mike M
>>>> >>>>>> --
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