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<p>While I am not generally a big fan of dangerous chemicals, there
is this cautionary tale from the events leading up to the banning
of DDT: Soil, plant, and animal samples had been tested that
appeared to show the presence of DDT 'almost everywhere' -
sometime after the ban went in place, someone pulled a sealed soil
sample that had been frozen in a glass bottle since around 1900
and ran it through the same test.</p>
<p>The results: Positive for DDT. Unless someone in that soils lab
had a time machine, clearly not possible - the test for
chlorinated hydrocarbons was, if not flat out wrong, at least too
broad.</p>
<p>The patent for glyphosate itself must have expired long ago, BTW:
I have a weed science textbook dated 1972 that describes the
chemical, its uses, and its cautions. Monsanto's 'brand name'
Roundup is no longer unique in its chemical content - the
patentable portions must be in the surfactants and the
consumer-oriented delivery packaging.</p>
<p>For myself: I certainly wouldn't drink the stuff, but its acute
toxicity is on the same order as table salt. I am very suspicious
about claims of great bodily harm that don't show up until the
chemical has been on the market for 40 years and more. <br>
</p>
<p>Just my 1/50 of a dollar...</p>
<p>Mark J<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/22/2020 4:34 PM, Mogrits wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAGmEE4cRCp4skx8z3=TQufPU9JMVAaZniE=eVX2Kp1Rb6f4bDQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">Cecil,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry I'm so late on this but been busy helping my wife
rehab. If you go looking into the story of DDTs ban it is
pretty eye-opening. Definitely not science based. The same
crowd that claimed it thinned bird shells also worried about a
"population bomb" if malaria was eliminated. I don't think
either company was motivated to get DDT or Roundup banned
because of expired patents, least of all Monsanto with
Roundup- they stand to pay out a lot of money if these
ridiculous lawsuits prevail. The suit that started this rash
of US suits was not a US lawsuit, and was subject to a lot of
interference.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Warren </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:03
AM Cecil Bearden <<a href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>The American council on Science & Health noted a
study where humans were fed a capsule of as much as 35mg
of DDT for 18 months had no ill effects. In fact they
list its toxicity as about equal to caffeine. A funy
thing about looking into research.... The type of rats
used on the DDT study were predisposed to cancer both in
the DDT group and the control group. This is the same
type of rat used in the research on Glyphosate the active
ingredient in Roundup. Due to the humidity and the heat
wave in central OK, I wish we had some DDT to use on the
mosquitoes. If you pull under a shade tree to work on
equipment, the mosquitoes are mounting an aerial attack
and the ticks are coming on foot.</p>
<p>Like I said, you ain't supposed to bathe in it...<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div>On 6/14/2020 6:06 PM, Al Jones wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> I agree Cecil, it’s not politics,
it’s science.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Roundup is probably the safest herbicide there is and
I’m not the least bit scared of it, but I don’t put it
in my coffee either! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Al<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jun 14, 2020, at 9:26 AM,
Cecil Bearden <a href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><crbearden@copper.net></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>I will not get into a political fight with anyone
here, but I remember using DDT as a kid and my Dad
and grandfather used it also. They lived long
lives and finally died due to a Dr. screwup. DDT
was determined to make eagle eggs have a thinner
shell when the problem was either genetic or
nutritional. It was a Judge who determined the
fate of DDT. Roundup was determined to be
possibly carcinogenic by a court, not a certified
laboratory. I think both decisions were
motivated by greed on the part of the chemical
manufacturer, not comprehensive real laboratory
tests. DDT had been around so long the patents
had run out. Same with Roundup. <br>
</p>
<p>That said, I use chemicals sparingly, but when I
use them I use the maximum rate according to label
directions. Then, immediately when I finish I
throw the clothes in the washer and wash twice. I
immediately take a shower with cold water first
then hot., then I wash the equipment and
afterwards wash my clothes and take a shower
again.. My Dad & I sprayed 2-4D and 2-4-5T
back in the late 60's early 70's with no cab on
the tractor. We should have taken more
precautions than we did, but we washed our hands a
lot.....<br>
<br>
You just don't take a bath in it, and use a little
common sense....<br>
</p>
<p>Cecil<br>
</p>
<div>On 6/14/2020 7:10 AM, <a
href="mailto:toma@risingnet.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">toma@risingnet.net</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr">I don't use
Roundup any more at all. 2-4 D is certainly no
safer. 2-4 D is closely related to 2-4-5 T, the
famous agent orange that killed all the Vietnam
vets. As I recall 2- 4 D was known as agent
yellow before all the carcenogenic effects were
known. My grandfather died of Hodgkin's Disease
after using 2-4-5 T.</p>
<p dir="ltr">From the write-up I read about
Triclopyr it has been extensively tested in rats
and found to have no carcenogenic properties. I
may consider trying it because we have so much
Poison Oak around here.I would still be very
careful with it.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Triclopyr might be a good safer
alternative to 2-4 D because it can be mixed to
effect broadleafs only. I fear there is no safer
alternative to Roundup for use on Roundup ready
crops. Better get out your cultivators boys.<br>
--<br>
Sent from myMail for Android<br>
Saturday, 13 June 2020, 10:30PM -07:00 from Mike
M <a href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">meulenms@gmx.com</a>:<br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I used to use Round Up on everything, since
the recent finding that<br>
it may be carcinogenic, I still use it, but
am more careful<br>
with it, and use 2-4D when I can. This
doesn't protect me from the<br>
farmer across the road who sprays all 250
acres with it, but that's<br>
sprayed from an enclosed cab with
specialized equipment, not a<br>
backpack sprayer.<br>
> Mike M<br>
>On 6/13/2020 7:06 PM, Spencer Yost<br>
wrote:<br>
>> <br>
I doubt it’s about the money - more about
an approach with less of<br>
a chemical footprint. I know zip about
that chemical foot print<br>
of the compounds discussed here so I leave
it to others to decide<br>
if that chemical footprint is worth a
concern or not. I also<br>
leave everyone with the reminder that not
all chemical footprints<br>
are well known, regardless of the labeling
and short term general<br>
consensus.<br>
<br>
>>Personally I just use roundup on the
low, bushy poison ivy. <br>
The climbing vines I hack a 1’ section
out of it. When that<br>
vine re-emerges I hit it with round up.
Works great.<br>
>>I have to have round-up for the grasses
and weeds that try to<br>
tear up the edges and cracks of our
private asphalt road. So the<br>
cost of a little extra round-up for
poison ivy control is of no<br>
financial/chemical footprint concern to
me.<br>
>>I have very little reaction to poison
ivy. I pretty much have<br>
to roll around in it for me to even get
a few blisters. But my<br>
poor wife really suffers. She generally
gets it in early spring.<br>
I assume she’s getting into the roots of
the poison ivy while<br>
she’s planting annuals and working beds
before the low bushy<br>
stuff emerges and can been
seen/identified.<br>
>>Spencer<br>
>>Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>>On Jun 13, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Stephen<br>
Offiler <a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><soffiler@gmail.com></a>
wrote:<br>
>>>How much do you pay for vinegar?
Ortho Max<br>
Poison Ivy is 8% Triclopyr and
you mix 4 oz to the<br>
gallon. A 16oz jug is $8.00, so
$2.00 per gallon. I'm<br>
sure it's a better value in
larger quantities. I don't<br>
think I can find vinegar as
cheap as $2 a gallon.<br>
<br>
>>>SO<br>
>>>On Fri, Jun 12, 2020<br>
at 11:34 PM Mike M <a
href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><meulenms@gmx.com></a><br>
wrote:<br>
>>>> I've read of the Triclopyr as
well but it's<br>
pricey for the area I need
to cover. I'm going to<br>
try the vinegar solution
first because its cheap<br>
and so am I. Brush be gone
would be fine if I had a<br>
small area to clear, but I
don't. I'll report back<br>
the results. Thanks all for
the info. <br>
>>>> Mike M<br>
>>>>On 6/12/2020 6:22 PM, Stephen
Offiler wrote:<br>
>>>>>Ortho Brush-B-Gone
(Triclopyr)<br>
>>>>>On Fri, Jun<br>
12, 2020 at 5:08 PM
Mike M <a href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><meulenms@gmx.com></a><br>
wrote:<br>
>>>>>>I have<br>
scads of poison ivy
around my place, anyone<br>
have a secret recipe<br>
>>>>>> to nuke this stuff?
I'm not overly susceptible<br>
to it, but my daughter<br>
>>>>>> is. Also I've read
that your reaction to it<br>
can change over time.<br>
>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>> Mike M<br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> This email has been
checked for viruses by<br>
Avast antivirus
software.<br>
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