[AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
Cecil Bearden
crbearden at copper.net
Sun Jun 7 05:48:44 PDT 2020
Mike:
I checked that on my refrig and I can turn the dial and watch it work
when I take out the bottom panel in the freezer compartment. I have
got very fast at removing that panel. When I first had the problem of
warm cold cabinet, and cold freezer. It had froze up enough ice the
damper would not move. This last time the damper would move but the
coils were iced up enough that the air was not getting to the cold
cabinet. I think mine is the defrost heater is bad...
Cecil
On 6/6/2020 10:46 PM, Mike M wrote:
> OK, so I mentioned Deans problem to my buddy tonight, and right off
> the bat he disregarded the Freon issue and went straight to a damper
> system between the freezer and the refrigerator , and that it may not
> be functioning properly, at least that's where he'd start. Note he's
> industrial not residential, but he's a very smart technician.
>
> Mike M
>
>
> On 6/6/2020 6:56 PM, bradloomis at charter.net wrote:
>>
>> I like your friend. There are way too many unethical people in some
>> of the trades. 99% of the population will have to take the mechanic’s
>> word as to the issue because they have no idea what they are talking
>> about. Probably asked about ohm reading on the ‘defective’ compressor
>> or relay. Easy peasy to do and know. Too many parts changers and not
>> enough diagnosticians. As an aside on refrigeration systems and
>> leaks, yes they are supposed to be sealed. The last place I worked
>> had 3 good sized ammonia systems and you would be hard pressed to not
>> walk thru an area and not get a little whiff now and then. It just
>> goes with hundreds of bolted in valves and solenoids, expansion and
>> contraction, and earthquakes. 500 tanks most with two solenoids and
>> strainers. Lots of leaks. Fortunately 99% outside, even the machine
>> rooms. Only one reportable, that that was after I left. Human error.
>> A big oops. Not supposed to leak but….
>>
>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 3:34 PM
>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> OK, so now the picture becomes clearer. We're going to a bonfire
>> tonight with friends, one of whom is a certified unlimited tonnage
>> refrigerant journeyman. He works on systems and chillers the size of
>> which blow my mind, all industrial. I'll ask him about Deans problem.
>> His mother had her refrigerator go out and rather than bother him she
>> called a service company. They said it was a bad compressor and
>> charged her around $700. When he got home she told him about the
>> problem, and what they did. He immediately called the service tech
>> and asked him about the problem. The service tech told him,"sir this
>> is very complicated" This lit the fuse on my buddy who asked him if
>> he ohm's out certain parts and other very specific technical
>> questions. The serviceman soon realized he chewed on the wrong dog,
>> and referred him to the owner of the company. After checking her
>> system her determined that it was a relay or some inexpensive part.
>> Don't quote me on the parts I'm not an expert. The owner dropped the
>> charge from $700 to $150 apologized profusely.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/6/2020 6:04 PM, bradloomis at charter.net
>> <mailto:bradloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Oh they can and do leak but they aren’t supposed to leak, AT ALL.
>> Ever. Sealed systems. Now, by law, leaks have to be repaired. You
>> can no longer just “add some” refrigerant because you can do that
>> in perpetuity. Of course there are exceptions to all laws. Hell
>> even autos aren’t supposed to ‘leak’. I doubt most cars newer
>> than what? 10? 20? Years old “leak” a little oil. Unless there is
>> something wrong, just like that A/C unit. Something isn’t right.
>> Any A/C guy that doesn’t find and fix the leak is negligent, or
>> just a bad mechanic. If your son inlaw is just family with
>> refrigerant adding it to your system, no harm no foul. I’ve
>> worked on 50 year old units that are still intact and working
>> without ever having the systems opened. Like cars, tractors, and
>> refrigerators, some are better than others.
>>
>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 2:18 PM
>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> I'm still having a hard time with your statement that a system
>> cannot leak over time. A small leak will lower the refrigerant
>> level over time, no different than a car with a small oil leak
>> will lead to a lower oil level "over time". I don't want to get
>> into the different refrigerants, and whether they are good or
>> bad, I am more interested in dealing with Deans problem, and for
>> you to say that it couldn't be low refrigerant is bogus, you
>> clearly stated that that there is no such thing as a small leak
>> over time, " *If it leaks it has a leak. No over time, no
>> evaporating*" please clarify your statement.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/6/2020 4:09 PM, bloomis at charter.net
>> <mailto:bloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If he didn’t fix the leak
>> then he’ll be adding more. I didn’t say it couldn’t be a
>> small leak, but still a leak. If it is a split system it
>> probably holds 4-6 lbs. of refrigerant. A domestic
>> refrigerator holds less than a pound. I had a little 3’ pie
>> case that had a leak that I never found. Every 3 months it
>> would quit. The charge was 6oz of R-12. That is a tiny leak.
>> So if pie cases, or any other refrigerant system had small
>> leaks by design, refrigeration mechanics would never go home.
>> It was at the Piedras Blancas Motel, which closed shortly
>> thereafter. Forever.
>> https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/
>>
>> The reason the ozone layer and refrigerants came under
>> scrutiny was primarily due to the automobile. Older cars were
>> notorious to leak, all averaging 2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply
>> that by the millions and that is a lot of R-12 into the
>> atmosphere. I am not going to argue the science, just the
>> outcome. That effected ALL refrigeration, A/C. When I first
>> started in the trade when one needed to empty a system for
>> repair you just blew it out into the atmosphere. Now recovery
>> machines and a slew of refrigerants. I got out of commercial
>> refrigeration as the plethora of refrigerants was
>> overwhelming. You never knew what the last guy put in a
>> system. Used to be three, R=12 for most medium temp/ some low
>> temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502 for low temp. Simple and easy.
>> I couldn’t work on a new A/C system as I’ve never worked with
>> 410a. Totally different animal. Now it’s already being phased
>> out. Long live ammonia! Easy, and enviro friendly. Mostly.
>> Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane. Most
>> of us know what that is. Not much. Liquid of course.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of
>> *Mike M
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM
>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> So an air conditioning system can't have a small leak that
>> reduces the level of refrigerant over time? Then why did my
>> son in law just have to add 2 lbs to our older AC unit? Where
>> did it go?
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, bradloomis at charter.net
>> <mailto:bradloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> If it leaks it has a leak. No over time, no evaporating.
>> A leak. Some repairable some not so much. Especially on a
>> domestic refrigerator. Gets into cost of repair exceeds
>> value of equipment. However that could cause excessive
>> run time but the compartments would be warm, eventually
>> hot. Dean indicated that temps were OK. Granted without a
>> thermometer. Calibrated fingers? 😊
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> I would be suspicious of your refrigerant level, it can
>> leak over time.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, deanvp at att.net
>> <mailto:deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> > We have a GE side by side refrigerator, Model TFX27F,
>> with all the bells and whistles Front Door Ice and Water
>> dispenser, access door to refrigerator without opening
>> the big door, etc etc. In fact we have a duplicate
>> running in our kitchen right now. This one was used as
>> extra freezer and refrigerator space for awhile when we
>> moved here 20 years ago and then it was turned off and
>> not used for at least 10 years. Well in my current need
>> of making space in the garage I fired it back up to check
>> everything to get it ready for sale. It freezes and the
>> refrigerator compartment gets cool like it should, well I
>> haven't put a thermometer in each compartment, but it
>> appears to me to be working. Except..... it never quits
>> running. Not quite true it runs about 95% of the time.
>> Without having door opened or anything disturbed. We
>> have had such good luck with this era of combination
>> freezer refrigerator I thought it might be worth
>> something to those just getting on their feet. I've
>> cleaned the whole guts under the compartments and it
>> really wasn't all that bad. The coils are clean as can
>> be. I doubt this thing is worth more than $100 running
>> as it should but if I could find a cheap fix it might be
>> worth spending $20 on a part or so.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And to satisfy the list needs of being on topic. I need
>> to make more room for Antique Tractor stuff I don't
>> need. Any one have a test I can run or a particular
>> part I can check? I'm pretty proficient electronics
>> wise. Besides if I could get this running properly
>> somebody might take this off my hands and I won't have to
>> deal with getting rid of it. It would take my loader
>> tractor to get it in to my P/U bed. Big heavy sucker.
>> Help? PS: I don't remember the last time I threw
>> something away but I do remember it was traumatic.! 😊
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dean VP
>>
>> > Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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