[AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Sat Jun 6 20:46:56 PDT 2020
OK, so I mentioned Deans problem to my buddy tonight, and right off the
bat he disregarded the Freon issue and went straight to a damper system
between the freezer and the refrigerator , and that it may not be
functioning properly, at least that's where he'd start. Note he's
industrial not residential, but he's a very smart technician.
Mike M
On 6/6/2020 6:56 PM, bradloomis at charter.net wrote:
>
> I like your friend. There are way too many unethical people in some of
> the trades. 99% of the population will have to take the mechanic’s
> word as to the issue because they have no idea what they are talking
> about. Probably asked about ohm reading on the ‘defective’ compressor
> or relay. Easy peasy to do and know. Too many parts changers and not
> enough diagnosticians. As an aside on refrigeration systems and leaks,
> yes they are supposed to be sealed. The last place I worked had 3 good
> sized ammonia systems and you would be hard pressed to not walk thru
> an area and not get a little whiff now and then. It just goes with
> hundreds of bolted in valves and solenoids, expansion and contraction,
> and earthquakes. 500 tanks most with two solenoids and strainers. Lots
> of leaks. Fortunately 99% outside, even the machine rooms. Only one
> reportable, that that was after I left. Human error. A big oops. Not
> supposed to leak but….
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 3:34 PM
> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>
> OK, so now the picture becomes clearer. We're going to a bonfire
> tonight with friends, one of whom is a certified unlimited tonnage
> refrigerant journeyman. He works on systems and chillers the size of
> which blow my mind, all industrial. I'll ask him about Deans problem.
> His mother had her refrigerator go out and rather than bother him she
> called a service company. They said it was a bad compressor and
> charged her around $700. When he got home she told him about the
> problem, and what they did. He immediately called the service tech and
> asked him about the problem. The service tech told him,"sir this is
> very complicated" This lit the fuse on my buddy who asked him if he
> ohm's out certain parts and other very specific technical questions.
> The serviceman soon realized he chewed on the wrong dog, and referred
> him to the owner of the company. After checking her system her
> determined that it was a relay or some inexpensive part. Don't quote
> me on the parts I'm not an expert. The owner dropped the charge from
> $700 to $150 apologized profusely.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 6/6/2020 6:04 PM, bradloomis at charter.net
> <mailto:bradloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Oh they can and do leak but they aren’t supposed to leak, AT ALL.
> Ever. Sealed systems. Now, by law, leaks have to be repaired. You
> can no longer just “add some” refrigerant because you can do that
> in perpetuity. Of course there are exceptions to all laws. Hell
> even autos aren’t supposed to ‘leak’. I doubt most cars newer than
> what? 10? 20? Years old “leak” a little oil. Unless there is
> something wrong, just like that A/C unit. Something isn’t right.
> Any A/C guy that doesn’t find and fix the leak is negligent, or
> just a bad mechanic. If your son inlaw is just family with
> refrigerant adding it to your system, no harm no foul. I’ve worked
> on 50 year old units that are still intact and working without
> ever having the systems opened. Like cars, tractors, and
> refrigerators, some are better than others.
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 2:18 PM
> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>
> I'm still having a hard time with your statement that a system
> cannot leak over time. A small leak will lower the refrigerant
> level over time, no different than a car with a small oil leak
> will lead to a lower oil level "over time". I don't want to get
> into the different refrigerants, and whether they are good or bad,
> I am more interested in dealing with Deans problem, and for you to
> say that it couldn't be low refrigerant is bogus, you clearly
> stated that that there is no such thing as a small leak over time,
> " *If it leaks it has a leak. No over time, no evaporating*"
> please clarify your statement.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 6/6/2020 4:09 PM, bloomis at charter.net
> <mailto:bloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If he didn’t fix the leak
> then he’ll be adding more. I didn’t say it couldn’t be a small
> leak, but still a leak. If it is a split system it probably
> holds 4-6 lbs. of refrigerant. A domestic refrigerator holds
> less than a pound. I had a little 3’ pie case that had a leak
> that I never found. Every 3 months it would quit. The charge
> was 6oz of R-12. That is a tiny leak. So if pie cases, or any
> other refrigerant system had small leaks by design,
> refrigeration mechanics would never go home. It was at the
> Piedras Blancas Motel, which closed shortly thereafter.
> Forever.
> https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/
>
> The reason the ozone layer and refrigerants came under
> scrutiny was primarily due to the automobile. Older cars were
> notorious to leak, all averaging 2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply that
> by the millions and that is a lot of R-12 into the atmosphere.
> I am not going to argue the science, just the outcome. That
> effected ALL refrigeration, A/C. When I first started in the
> trade when one needed to empty a system for repair you just
> blew it out into the atmosphere. Now recovery machines and a
> slew of refrigerants. I got out of commercial refrigeration as
> the plethora of refrigerants was overwhelming. You never knew
> what the last guy put in a system. Used to be three, R=12 for
> most medium temp/ some low temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502 for
> low temp. Simple and easy. I couldn’t work on a new A/C system
> as I’ve never worked with 410a. Totally different animal. Now
> it’s already being phased out. Long live ammonia! Easy, and
> enviro friendly. Mostly.
> Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane. Most
> of us know what that is. Not much. Liquid of course.
>
> Brad
>
> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of
> *Mike M
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM
> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>
> So an air conditioning system can't have a small leak that
> reduces the level of refrigerant over time? Then why did my
> son in law just have to add 2 lbs to our older AC unit? Where
> did it go?
>
> Mike M
>
> On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, bradloomis at charter.net
> <mailto:bradloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>
> If it leaks it has a leak. No over time, no evaporating. A
> leak. Some repairable some not so much. Especially on a
> domestic refrigerator. Gets into cost of repair exceeds
> value of equipment. However that could cause excessive run
> time but the compartments would be warm, eventually hot.
> Dean indicated that temps were OK. Granted without a
> thermometer. Calibrated fingers? 😊
>
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>
> I would be suspicious of your refrigerant level, it can
> leak over time.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, deanvp at att.net
> <mailto:deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>
> > We have a GE side by side refrigerator, Model TFX27F,
> with all the bells and whistles Front Door Ice and Water
> dispenser, access door to refrigerator without opening the
> big door, etc etc. In fact we have a duplicate running in
> our kitchen right now. This one was used as extra freezer
> and refrigerator space for awhile when we moved here 20
> years ago and then it was turned off and not used for at
> least 10 years. Well in my current need of making space
> in the garage I fired it back up to check everything to
> get it ready for sale. It freezes and the refrigerator
> compartment gets cool like it should, well I haven't put a
> thermometer in each compartment, but it appears to me to
> be working. Except..... it never quits running. Not
> quite true it runs about 95% of the time. Without having
> door opened or anything disturbed. We have had such good
> luck with this era of combination freezer refrigerator I
> thought it might be worth something to those just getting
> on their feet. I've cleaned the whole guts under the
> compartments and it really wasn't all that bad. The coils
> are clean as can be. I doubt this thing is worth more
> than $100 running as it should but if I could find a cheap
> fix it might be worth spending $20 on a part or so.
>
> >
>
> > And to satisfy the list needs of being on topic. I need
> to make more room for Antique Tractor stuff I don't
> need. Any one have a test I can run or a particular
> part I can check? I'm pretty proficient electronics wise.
> Besides if I could get this running properly somebody
> might take this off my hands and I won't have to deal with
> getting rid of it. It would take my loader tractor to get
> it in to my P/U bed. Big heavy sucker. Help? PS: I
> don't remember the last time I threw something away but I
> do remember it was traumatic.! 😊
>
> >
>
> > Dean VP
>
> > Snohomish, WA 98290
>
>
>
>
>
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