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<p>Mike:<br>
I checked that on my refrig and I can turn the dial and watch it
work when I take out the bottom panel in the freezer
compartment. I have got very fast at removing that panel. When
I first had the problem of warm cold cabinet, and cold freezer.
It had froze up enough ice the damper would not move. This last
time the damper would move but the coils were iced up enough that
the air was not getting to the cold cabinet. I think mine is the
defrost heater is bad... <br>
</p>
<p>Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2020 10:46 PM, Mike M wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f1c7b717-6a50-c5f4-bc9c-ab4e265996c3@gmx.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
OK, so I mentioned Deans problem to my buddy tonight, and right
off the bat he disregarded the Freon issue and went straight to a
damper system between the freezer and the refrigerator , and that
it may not be functioning properly, at least that's where he'd
start. Note he's industrial not residential, but he's a very smart
technician. <br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2020 6:56 PM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">bradloomis@charter.net</a>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I like your friend. There are way too
many unethical people in some of the trades. 99% of the
population will have to take the mechanic’s word as to the
issue because they have no idea what they are talking about.
Probably asked about ohm reading on the ‘defective’
compressor or relay. Easy peasy to do and know. Too many
parts changers and not enough diagnosticians. As an aside on
refrigeration systems and leaks, yes they are supposed to be
sealed. The last place I worked had 3 good sized ammonia
systems and you would be hard pressed to not walk thru an
area and not get a little whiff now and then. It just goes
with hundreds of bolted in valves and solenoids, expansion
and contraction, and earthquakes. 500 tanks most with two
solenoids and strainers. Lots of leaks. Fortunately 99%
outside, even the machine rooms. Only one reportable, that
that was after I left. Human error. A big oops. Not supposed
to leak but…. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 3:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on
Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">OK, so now
the picture becomes clearer. We're going to a bonfire
tonight with friends, one of whom is a certified unlimited
tonnage refrigerant journeyman. He works on systems and
chillers the size of which blow my mind, all industrial.
I'll ask him about Deans problem. His mother had her
refrigerator go out and rather than bother him she called a
service company. They said it was a bad compressor and
charged her around $700. When he got home she told him about
the problem, and what they did. He immediately called the
service tech and asked him about the problem. The service
tech told him,"sir this is very complicated" This lit the
fuse on my buddy who asked him if he ohm's out certain
parts and other very specific technical questions. The
serviceman soon realized he chewed on the wrong dog, and
referred him to the owner of the company. After checking her
system her determined that it was a relay or some
inexpensive part. Don't quote me on the parts I'm not an
expert. The owner dropped the charge from $700 to $150
apologized profusely. <br>
<br>
Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 6:04 PM, <a
href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">bradloomis@charter.net</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Oh they can and do leak but they aren’t
supposed to leak, AT ALL. Ever. Sealed systems. Now, by
law, leaks have to be repaired. You can no longer just
“add some” refrigerant because you can do that in
perpetuity. Of course there are exceptions to all laws.
Hell even autos aren’t supposed to ‘leak’. I doubt most
cars newer than what? 10? 20? Years old “leak” a little
oil. Unless there is something wrong, just like that A/C
unit. Something isn’t right. Any A/C guy that doesn’t find
and fix the leak is negligent, or just a bad mechanic. If
your son inlaw is just family with refrigerant adding it
to your system, no harm no foul. I’ve worked on 50 year
old units that are still intact and working without ever
having the systems opened. Like cars, tractors, and
refrigerators, some are better than others. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 2:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on
Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I'm still
having a hard time with your statement that a system
cannot leak over time. A small leak will lower the
refrigerant level over time, no different than a car with
a small oil leak will lead to a lower oil level "over
time". I don't want to get into the different
refrigerants, and whether they are good or bad, I am more
interested in dealing with Deans problem, and for you to
say that it couldn't be low refrigerant is bogus, you
clearly stated that that there is no such thing as a small
leak over time, " <b>If it leaks it has a leak. No over
time, no evaporating</b>" please clarify your statement.<br>
<br>
Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 4:09 PM, <a
href="mailto:bloomis@charter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">bloomis@charter.net</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If
he didn’t fix the leak then he’ll be adding more. I
didn’t say it couldn’t be a small leak, but still a
leak. If it is a split system it probably holds 4-6 lbs.
of refrigerant. A domestic refrigerator holds less than
a pound. I had a little 3’ pie case that had a leak that
I never found. Every 3 months it would quit. The charge
was 6oz of R-12. That is a tiny leak. So if pie cases,
or any other refrigerant system had small leaks by
design, refrigeration mechanics would never go home. It
was at the Piedras Blancas Motel, which closed shortly
thereafter. Forever. <a
href="https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason the ozone layer and
refrigerants came under scrutiny was primarily due to
the automobile. Older cars were notorious to leak, all
averaging 2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply that by the millions
and that is a lot of R-12 into the atmosphere. I am not
going to argue the science, just the outcome. That
effected ALL refrigeration, A/C. When I first started in
the trade when one needed to empty a system for repair
you just blew it out into the atmosphere. Now recovery
machines and a slew of refrigerants. I got out of
commercial refrigeration as the plethora of refrigerants
was overwhelming. You never knew what the last guy put
in a system. Used to be three, R=12 for most medium
temp/ some low temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502 for low
temp. Simple and easy. I couldn’t work on a new A/C
system as I’ve never worked with 410a. Totally different
animal. Now it’s already being phased out. Long live
ammonia! Easy, and enviro friendly. Mostly. <br>
Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane.
Most of us know what that is. Not much. Liquid of
course. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on
Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">So an
air conditioning system can't have a small leak that
reduces the level of refrigerant over time? Then why did
my son in law just have to add 2 lbs to our older AC
unit? Where did it go?<br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, <a
href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">bradloomis@charter.net</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoPlainText">If it leaks it has a leak. No
over time, no evaporating. A leak. Some repairable
some not so much. Especially on a domestic
refrigerator. Gets into cost of repair exceeds value
of equipment. However that could cause excessive run
time but the compartments would be warm, eventually
hot. Dean indicated that temps were OK. Granted
without a thermometer. Calibrated fingers? <span
style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Brad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I would be suspicious of your
refrigerant level, it can leak over time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, <a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">deanvp@att.net</span></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> We have a GE side by side
refrigerator, Model TFX27F, with all the bells and
whistles Front Door Ice and Water dispenser, access
door to refrigerator without opening the big door,
etc etc. In fact we have a duplicate running in our
kitchen right now. This one was used as extra freezer
and refrigerator space for awhile when we moved here
20 years ago and then it was turned off and not used
for at least 10 years. Well in my current need of
making space in the garage I fired it back up to check
everything to get it ready for sale. It freezes and
the refrigerator compartment gets cool like it should,
well I haven't put a thermometer in each compartment,
but it appears to me to be working. Except..... it
never quits running. Not quite true it runs about
95% of the time. Without having door opened or
anything disturbed. We have had such good luck with
this era of combination freezer refrigerator I thought
it might be worth something to those just getting on
their feet. I've cleaned the whole guts under the
compartments and it really wasn't all that bad. The
coils are clean as can be. I doubt this thing is
worth more than $100 running as it should but if I
could find a cheap fix it might be worth spending $20
on a part or so.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> And to satisfy the list
needs of being on topic. I need to make more room for
Antique Tractor stuff I don't need. Any one have a
test I can run or a particular part I can check? I'm
pretty proficient electronics wise. Besides if I
could get this running properly somebody might take
this off my hands and I won't have to deal with
getting rid of it. It would take my loader tractor to
get it in to my P/U bed. Big heavy sucker. Help?
PS: I don't remember the last time I threw something
away but I do remember it was traumatic.! <span
style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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