[AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial
Cecil Bearden
crbearden at copper.net
Tue Feb 25 13:31:31 PST 2020
I have thought about that, and have an old and a newer 4 post lift just
not installed. When you work on both trucks and tractors, the lift can
get in the way. I would like to install the 4 post 30K lift, but the
floor has water pipes for heat under the slab. We don't know where they
are, and the posts have to have a pier under them. The floor has 8"
piers under the slab, cannot remember where they are. I thought of
fastening 4' x 4' plates 1in thick to the floor and then fasten the
posts to them. The floor is reinforced with reinforcing steel. I need
to find the reinforcing in the floor and try to miss the bars with the
plate anchors.
Cecil
On 2/25/2020 2:14 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:
>
> Surely a two poster would be a better bet?
>
> Tom
>
>> On 26 February 2020 at 08:29 Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>>
>> Since I have a spinal problem and now one worn out stiff knee,
>> getting up and down under anything is a problem. Once I get down I
>> have to either make do with what I have or haul all 300 lbs of myself
>> up and get what I need then when I get within a foot of the floor, I
>> usually just try to fall on something soft!!!!!! I have seriously
>> been looking at this creeper made for aircraft.
>> https://ezcreeper.com/ I just wish it was available with an electric
>> pump. I have been looking for a drill powered hydraulic pump to
>> adapt to this creeper.
>> Cecil
>>
>> On 2/25/2020 12:56 PM, Ron Cook wrote:
>>>
>>> Which is what I do. And danged if I still don't have the right one!
>>>
>>> Ron Cook, Salix, IA
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/25/2020 12:47 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>> As a matter of fact I turn 58 today, and I maintain my physical
>>>> fitness to the best of my ability, so you're probably right in that
>>>> regard. But sorry, I reject the notion that bringing the wrong
>>>> wrench is a blood-pressure-raising event, and I stand fast by my
>>>> comment. This simply isn't an argument against the metric system.
>>>> Seriously, just bring several wrenches...
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:28 PM < deanvp at att.net
>>>> <mailto:deanvp at att.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>>
>>>> You may not have reached the age where getting down and under a
>>>> vehicle and then getting back up is a major effort. Having the
>>>> wrong wrench when I get under there is not a happy event.
>>>> Should I give up DIY wrenching? Not a chance as long as my
>>>> body is still warm. If I didn’t keep trying to do this stuff I
>>>> would have been 6’ under a long time ago,
>>>>
>>>> Dean VP
>>>>
>>>> Apache Junction, AZ
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>> *On Behalf Of
>>>> *Stephen Offiler
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:18 AM
>>>> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not
>>>> metric and a fairly simple tutorial
>>>>
>>>> You might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing if
>>>> that's all it takes to get your blood pressure up.
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam
>>>> <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net <mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools. The
>>>> proof is I still need two sets to service my modern pickup.
>>>>
>>>> It sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially when I
>>>> crawl under the darn thing only to find that one d at m bolt
>>>> is metric causing a cussing wrench throwing fit as I crawl
>>>> back out to get that evil metric wrench.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin
>>>>
>>>> <tmartin at xtra.co.nz <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall
>>>> <jtchall at nc.rr.com <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Don't know why they couldn't change pipe threads,
>>>> after all the rest of
>>>> > the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the British
>>>> threads. Can't really see
>>>> > how it is simpler than what we use. I mean how
>>>> exactly do the Japanese
>>>> > explain such? Never seen a German print in inches
>>>> either for that
>>>> > matter. If metric is so much better, then go all in I
>>>> say.
>>>>
>>>> Well the rest of the world for a long time was British
>>>> or used British technology
>>>> before Sellars came along with his 60º thread form in
>>>> the US. The US wasn't a great exporter
>>>> at the time, focusing more on internal expansion &
>>>> self-sufficiency
>>>> >
>>>> > You missed the part about leaving out the bastard
>>>> pipe threads, didn't
>>>> > you? We did so much hydraulic work at one point that
>>>> all I stocked was
>>>> > NPTF, it works for NPT. As you know, NPT covers the
>>>> vast majority,
>>>> > while NPTF will cover the majority of whats left. The
>>>> scraps can be left
>>>> > to those who specialize in oddities.
>>>> >
>>>> > Never needed an IH bearing that I couldn't source
>>>> from wherever. The
>>>> > only roller bearing I ever needed that was
>>>> manufacture specific was the
>>>> > plunger bearing on a New Holland baler. Motion
>>>> industries finally was
>>>> > able to cross it, but I couldn't find it any where
>>>> else, not even
>>>> > aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing housing had to
>>>> come from New
>>>> > Holland, nothing even close. That set up cost me
>>>> close to $300
>>>> >
>>>> I think there is a slight time frame difference in our
>>>> work experience,
>>>> My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in the 60s & 70
>>>> and included
>>>> machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did insist on
>>>> bearings that were
>>>> only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC crawlers that used
>>>> more Timken style
>>>> bearings, could be sourced from any bearing supply co.
>>>> Five times cheaper
>>>> than Cat Or IH equivalents.
>>>> An interesting aside was that, rarely was there a need
>>>> for machining with
>>>> AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of parts.
>>>> Good designs leave little
>>>> room for improvement.
>>>>
>>>> > We have an entire section of bastard taps at work, it
>>>> has just as many
>>>> > oddball metrics as it does english. It all depends on
>>>> the industries you
>>>> > support as to what is in your tool crib.
>>>> >
>>>> Around here, its fruit and meat processing.
>>>> At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach & pear lines
>>>> were American sourced,
>>>> and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like 1-7/16",
>>>> 1-9/16" & 1-15/16"
>>>> with ODs to match. Only source was the manufacturer.
>>>> Another delight was the spaghetti extruder, it had a
>>>> 50hp motor driving
>>>> the extruder through reduction gears, every every shaft
>>>> was a nominal size +
>>>> a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come from. It
>>>> had one bad design
>>>> fault in that the heaviest reduction had no hunting
>>>> teeth, and it had some
>>>> very bad wear patterns revealed on dismantling, had a
>>>> blank forged in Australia,
>>>> it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)
>>>> >
>>>> > I've found that engineers don't always make stuff
>>>> weird so you have to
>>>> > buy from them, its often so you don't make a
>>>> substitution that
>>>> > compromises the design. But there are some that need
>>>> a plate glass
>>>> > stomach.....
>>>> "Plate glass stomach"?
>>>> Don't know that saying, although I have modified
>>>> modified maker's efforts
>>>> for the better, when their designs were found wanting.
>>>> Flattering when they
>>>> come up with the same improvement...
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> > On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:
>>>> > >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17 John Hall
>>>> <jtchall at nc.rr.com <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Fun fact. Did you know metric pipe threads are
>>>> actually in inches? They
>>>> > >> are actually 55 deg threadform (British Whitworth)
>>>> but the pitch is in
>>>> > >> metric. And the real fun part is that the rest of
>>>> the planet can't even
>>>> > >> decide how to spec them on
>>>> drawing/print/blueprint. Different countries
>>>> > >> have different designations for the same thing.
>>>> Off the top of my head,
>>>> > >> I think there are a combined 7 different ways of
>>>> designating metric pipe
>>>> > >> threads (taper and straight), as opposed to just
>>>> 2. Now we won't split
>>>> > >> hairs with short projection, dryseal or other
>>>> specialty threads--lets
>>>> > >> stick to 99.999% of pipe threads.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a machine shop and have
>>>> continually used both
>>>> > >> english and metric without an issue. Its the rest
>>>> of the planet that
>>>> > >> makes a big ordeal out of it, we just grab a print
>>>> and go with it.
>>>> > >> English, German, Japanese--its all the same--until
>>>> we have to use
>>>> > >> Translate Google to figure out the notes.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> One more fun fact. Next time you need some roller
>>>> bearings for your old
>>>> > >> tractor and start measuring them only to find they
>>>> aren't exactly
>>>> > >> english, convert them to metric--you might ought
>>>> to sit down first.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> I won't even get into European conduit
>>>> threads--I've only had to do them
>>>> > >> twice.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> John Hall
>>>> > >>
>>>> > > Well, John
>>>> > > Europe did adopt BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads
>>>> > > back in the 19th century, difficult to change
>>>> horses now.
>>>> > > Quite a simple setup compared to the American system!
>>>> > > Did you know that the US has 11 diffent derivatives of
>>>> > > National Pipe threads?
>>>> > > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many a lathe manufacturer
>>>> > > swore when Norton invented the quick change gearbox for
>>>> > > lathes and provision had to be made for that.
>>>> > > In fact would say I have cut more peculiar threads
>>>> of US
>>>> > > origin that elsewhere.
>>>> > > That goes for bearings also. Both Caterpillar and
>>>> IH used to
>>>> > > get bearings, especially taper-roller, ground to their
>>>> > > specific sizes, so that only they could supply, at
>>>> a cost
>>>> > > 5 to 10 times the cost of a standard size!
>>>> Extortionate!
>>>> > > Competition finally forced them into
>>>> standardization in the finish.
>>>> > > FMC was another who engaged in the practice in
>>>> another field.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Tom
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > >
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>>>>
>>>> >
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