[AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial
Thomas Martin
tmartin at xtra.co.nz
Tue Feb 25 12:14:22 PST 2020
Surely a two poster would be a better bet?
Tom
> On 26 February 2020 at 08:29 Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>
>
> Since I have a spinal problem and now one worn out stiff knee, getting up and down under anything is a problem. Once I get down I have to either make do with what I have or haul all 300 lbs of myself up and get what I need then when I get within a foot of the floor, I usually just try to fall on something soft!!!!!! I have seriously been looking at this creeper made for aircraft. https://ezcreeper.com/ I just wish it was available with an electric pump. I have been looking for a drill powered hydraulic pump to adapt to this creeper.
> Cecil
>
> On 2/25/2020 12:56 PM, Ron Cook wrote:
>
> > >
> > Which is what I do. And danged if I still don't have the right one!
> >
> > Ron Cook, Salix, IA
> >
> >
> > On 2/25/2020 12:47 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> >
> > > > > As a matter of fact I turn 58 today, and I maintain my physical fitness to the best of my ability, so you're probably right in that regard. But sorry, I reject the notion that bringing the wrong wrench is a blood-pressure-raising event, and I stand fast by my comment. This simply isn't an argument against the metric system. Seriously, just bring several wrenches...
> > >
> > > SO
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:28 PM < deanvp at att.net mailto:deanvp at att.net > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You may not have reached the age where getting down and under a vehicle and then getting back up is a major effort. Having the wrong wrench when I get under there is not a happy event. Should I give up DIY wrenching? Not a chance as long as my body is still warm. If I didn’t keep trying to do this stuff I would have been 6’ under a long time ago,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dean VP
> > > >
> > > > Apache Junction, AZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com > On Behalf Of Stephen Offiler
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:18 AM
> > > > To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com >
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing if that's all it takes to get your blood pressure up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > It was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools. The proof is I still need two sets to service my modern pickup.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially when I crawl under the darn thing only to find that one d at m bolt is metric causing a cussing wrench throwing fit as I crawl back out to get that evil metric wrench.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <tmartin at xtra.co.nz mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't know why they couldn't change pipe threads, after all the rest of
> > > > > > > the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the British threads. Can't really see
> > > > > > > how it is simpler than what we use. I mean how exactly do the Japanese
> > > > > > > explain such? Never seen a German print in inches either for that
> > > > > > > matter. If metric is so much better, then go all in I say.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well the rest of the world for a long time was British or used British technology
> > > > > > before Sellars came along with his 60º thread form in the US. The US wasn't a great exporter
> > > > > > at the time, focusing more on internal expansion & self-sufficiency
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You missed the part about leaving out the bastard pipe threads, didn't
> > > > > > > you? We did so much hydraulic work at one point that all I stocked was
> > > > > > > NPTF, it works for NPT. As you know, NPT covers the vast majority,
> > > > > > > while NPTF will cover the majority of whats left. The scraps can be left
> > > > > > > to those who specialize in oddities.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Never needed an IH bearing that I couldn't source from wherever. The
> > > > > > > only roller bearing I ever needed that was manufacture specific was the
> > > > > > > plunger bearing on a New Holland baler. Motion industries finally was
> > > > > > > able to cross it, but I couldn't find it any where else, not even
> > > > > > > aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing housing had to come from New
> > > > > > > Holland, nothing even close. That set up cost me close to $300
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I think there is a slight time frame difference in our work experience,
> > > > > > My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in the 60s & 70 and included
> > > > > > machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did insist on bearings that were
> > > > > > only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC crawlers that used more Timken style
> > > > > > bearings, could be sourced from any bearing supply co. Five times cheaper
> > > > > > than Cat Or IH equivalents.
> > > > > > An interesting aside was that, rarely was there a need for machining with
> > > > > > AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of parts. Good designs leave little
> > > > > > room for improvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have an entire section of bastard taps at work, it has just as many
> > > > > > > oddball metrics as it does english. It all depends on the industries you
> > > > > > > support as to what is in your tool crib.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Around here, its fruit and meat processing.
> > > > > > At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach & pear lines were American sourced,
> > > > > > and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like 1-7/16", 1-9/16" & 1-15/16"
> > > > > > with ODs to match. Only source was the manufacturer.
> > > > > > Another delight was the spaghetti extruder, it had a 50hp motor driving
> > > > > > the extruder through reduction gears, every every shaft was a nominal size +
> > > > > > a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come from. It had one bad design
> > > > > > fault in that the heaviest reduction had no hunting teeth, and it had some
> > > > > > very bad wear patterns revealed on dismantling, had a blank forged in Australia,
> > > > > > it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've found that engineers don't always make stuff weird so you have to
> > > > > > > buy from them, its often so you don't make a substitution that
> > > > > > > compromises the design. But there are some that need a plate glass
> > > > > > > stomach.....
> > > > > > "Plate glass stomach"?
> > > > > > Don't know that saying, although I have modified modified maker's efforts
> > > > > > for the better, when their designs were found wanting. Flattering when they
> > > > > > come up with the same improvement...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17 John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Fun fact. Did you know metric pipe threads are actually in inches? They
> > > > > > > >> are actually 55 deg threadform (British Whitworth) but the pitch is in
> > > > > > > >> metric. And the real fun part is that the rest of the planet can't even
> > > > > > > >> decide how to spec them on drawing/print/blueprint. Different countries
> > > > > > > >> have different designations for the same thing. Off the top of my head,
> > > > > > > >> I think there are a combined 7 different ways of designating metric pipe
> > > > > > > >> threads (taper and straight), as opposed to just 2. Now we won't split
> > > > > > > >> hairs with short projection, dryseal or other specialty threads--lets
> > > > > > > >> stick to 99.999% of pipe threads.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a machine shop and have continually used both
> > > > > > > >> english and metric without an issue. Its the rest of the planet that
> > > > > > > >> makes a big ordeal out of it, we just grab a print and go with it.
> > > > > > > >> English, German, Japanese--its all the same--until we have to use
> > > > > > > >> Translate Google to figure out the notes.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> One more fun fact. Next time you need some roller bearings for your old
> > > > > > > >> tractor and start measuring them only to find they aren't exactly
> > > > > > > >> english, convert them to metric--you might ought to sit down first.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I won't even get into European conduit threads--I've only had to do them
> > > > > > > >> twice.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> John Hall
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > Well, John
> > > > > > > > Europe did adopt BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads
> > > > > > > > back in the 19th century, difficult to change horses now.
> > > > > > > > Quite a simple setup compared to the American system!
> > > > > > > > Did you know that the US has 11 diffent derivatives of
> > > > > > > > National Pipe threads?
> > > > > > > > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many a lathe manufacturer
> > > > > > > > swore when Norton invented the quick change gearbox for
> > > > > > > > lathes and provision had to be made for that.
> > > > > > > > In fact would say I have cut more peculiar threads of US
> > > > > > > > origin that elsewhere.
> > > > > > > > That goes for bearings also. Both Caterpillar and IH used to
> > > > > > > > get bearings, especially taper-roller, ground to their
> > > > > > > > specific sizes, so that only they could supply, at a cost
> > > > > > > > 5 to 10 times the cost of a standard size! Extortionate!
> > > > > > > > Competition finally forced them into standardization in the finish.
> > > > > > > > FMC was another who engaged in the practice in another field.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tom
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