[AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not metric and a fairly simple tutorial

Cecil Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Tue Feb 25 11:29:31 PST 2020


Since I have a spinal problem and now one worn out stiff knee, getting 
up and down under anything is a problem.  Once I get down I have to 
either make do with what I have or haul all 300 lbs of myself up and get 
what I need then when I get within a foot of the floor, I usually just 
try to fall on something soft!!!!!!  I have seriously been looking at 
this creeper made for aircraft. https://ezcreeper.com/ I just wish it 
was available with an electric pump.  I have been looking for a drill 
powered hydraulic pump to adapt to this creeper.
Cecil

On 2/25/2020 12:56 PM, Ron Cook wrote:
>
> Which is what I do.  And danged if I still don't have the right one!
>
> Ron Cook, Salix, IA
>
>
> On 2/25/2020 12:47 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>> As a matter of fact I turn 58 today, and I maintain my physical 
>> fitness to the best of my ability, so you're probably right in that 
>> regard.  But sorry, I reject the notion that bringing the wrong 
>> wrench is a blood-pressure-raising event, and I stand fast by my 
>> comment. This simply isn't an argument against the metric system. 
>> Seriously, just bring several wrenches...
>>
>> SO
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:28 PM <deanvp at att.net 
>> <mailto:deanvp at att.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Steve,
>>
>>     You may not have reached the age where getting down and under a
>>     vehicle and then getting back up is a major effort.  Having the
>>     wrong wrench when I get under there is not a happy event. Should
>>     I give up DIY wrenching?  Not a chance as long as my body is
>>     still warm.  If I didn’t keep trying to do this stuff I would
>>     have been 6’ under a long time ago,
>>
>>     Dean VP
>>
>>     Apache Junction, AZ
>>
>>     *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>     <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>> *On Behalf Of
>>     *Stephen Offiler
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:18 AM
>>     *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>     <at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [AT] Supposedly why our old tractors are not
>>     metric and a fairly simple tutorial
>>
>>     You might want to re-think the whole DIY wrenching thing if
>>     that's all it takes to get your blood pressure up.
>>
>>     SO
>>
>>     On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:13 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam
>>     <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net <mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         It was a evil plot to sell us another set of tools. The proof
>>         is I still need two sets to service my modern pickup.
>>
>>         It sells a lot of blood pressure meds. Especially when I
>>         crawl under the darn thing only to find that one d at m bolt is
>>         metric causing a cussing wrench throwing fit as I crawl back
>>         out to get that evil metric wrench.
>>
>>         Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android
>>         <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>
>>             On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:40 AM, Thomas Martin
>>
>>             <tmartin at xtra.co.nz <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>             > On 25 February 2020 at 17:12 John Hall
>>             <jtchall at nc.rr.com <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>             >
>>             >
>>             > Don't know why they couldn't change pipe threads, after
>>             all the rest of
>>             > the planet uses 60 deg, not 55 for the British threads.
>>             Can't really see
>>             > how it is simpler than what we use. I mean how exactly
>>             do the Japanese
>>             > explain such? Never seen a German print in inches
>>             either for that
>>             > matter. If metric is so much better, then go all in I say.
>>
>>             Well the rest of the world for a long time was British or
>>             used British technology
>>             before Sellars came along with his 60º thread form in the
>>             US. The US wasn't a great exporter
>>             at the time, focusing more on internal expansion &
>>             self-sufficiency
>>             >
>>             > You missed the part about leaving out the bastard pipe
>>             threads, didn't
>>             > you? We did so much hydraulic work at one point that
>>             all I stocked was
>>             > NPTF, it works for NPT.  As you know, NPT covers the
>>             vast majority,
>>             > while NPTF will cover the majority of whats left. The
>>             scraps can be left
>>             > to those who specialize in oddities.
>>             >
>>             > Never needed an IH bearing that I couldn't source from
>>             wherever. The
>>             > only roller bearing I ever needed that was manufacture
>>             specific was the
>>             > plunger bearing on a New Holland baler. Motion
>>             industries finally was
>>             > able to cross it, but I couldn't find it any where
>>             else, not even
>>             > aftermarket ag parts. And the bearing housing had to
>>             come from New
>>             > Holland, nothing even close. That set up cost me close
>>             to $300
>>             >
>>             I think there is a slight time frame difference in our
>>             work experience,
>>             My experience with Cat, IH, & AC was in the 60s & 70 and
>>             included
>>             machinery built in the 50s. Cat & IH did insist on
>>             bearings that were
>>             only Cat & IH inclusive, whereas AC crawlers that used
>>             more Timken style
>>             bearings, could be sourced from any bearing supply co.
>>             Five times cheaper
>>             than Cat Or IH equivalents.
>>             An interesting aside was that, rarely was there a need
>>             for machining with
>>             AC, Cat or, IH as regards remedial repair of parts. Good
>>             designs leave little
>>             room for improvement.
>>
>>             > We have an entire section of bastard taps at work, it
>>             has just as many
>>             > oddball metrics as it does english. It all depends on
>>             the industries you
>>             > support as to what is in your tool crib.
>>             >
>>             Around here, its fruit and meat processing.
>>             At the local Heinz cannery, all the peach & pear lines
>>             were American sourced,
>>             and the makers delighted in shaft sizes like 1-7/16",
>>             1-9/16" & 1-15/16"
>>             with ODs to match. Only source was the manufacturer.
>>             Another delight was the spaghetti extruder, it had a 50hp
>>             motor driving
>>             the extruder through reduction gears, every every shaft
>>             was a nominal size +
>>             a 1/16" Guess where the bearings had to come from. It had
>>             one bad design
>>             fault in that the heaviest reduction had no hunting
>>             teeth, and it had some
>>             very bad wear patterns revealed on dismantling, had a
>>             blank forged in Australia,
>>             it was about 600mm with a 152mm face. :-)
>>             >
>>             > I've found that engineers don't always make stuff weird
>>             so you have to
>>             > buy from them, its often so you don't make a
>>             substitution that
>>             > compromises the design. But there are some that need a
>>             plate glass
>>             > stomach.....
>>             "Plate glass stomach"?
>>             Don't know that saying, although I have modified modified
>>             maker's efforts
>>             for the better, when their designs were found wanting.
>>             Flattering when they
>>             come up with the same improvement...
>>
>>             Tom
>>             >
>>             > John
>>             >
>>             > On 2/24/2020 10:41 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:
>>             > >> On 25 February 2020 at 15:17 John Hall
>>             <jtchall at nc.rr.com <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>             > >>
>>             > >>
>>             > >> Fun fact. Did you know metric pipe threads are
>>             actually in inches? They
>>             > >> are actually 55 deg threadform (British Whitworth)
>>             but the pitch is in
>>             > >> metric. And the real fun part is that the rest of
>>             the planet can't even
>>             > >> decide how to spec them on drawing/print/blueprint.
>>             Different countries
>>             > >> have different designations for the same thing. Off
>>             the top of my head,
>>             > >> I think there are a combined 7 different ways of
>>             designating metric pipe
>>             > >> threads (taper and straight), as opposed to just 2.
>>             Now we won't split
>>             > >> hairs with short projection, dryseal or other
>>             specialty threads--lets
>>             > >> stick to 99.999% of pipe threads.
>>             > >>
>>             > >> FWIW, I have 30 years in a machine shop and have
>>             continually used both
>>             > >> english and metric without an issue. Its the rest of
>>             the planet that
>>             > >> makes a big ordeal out of it, we just grab a print
>>             and go with it.
>>             > >> English, German, Japanese--its all the same--until
>>             we have to use
>>             > >> Translate Google to figure out the notes.
>>             > >>
>>             > >> One more fun fact. Next time you need some roller
>>             bearings for your old
>>             > >> tractor and start measuring them only to find they
>>             aren't exactly
>>             > >> english, convert them to metric--you might ought to
>>             sit down first.
>>             > >>
>>             > >> I won't even get into European conduit threads--I've
>>             only had to do them
>>             > >> twice.
>>             > >>
>>             > >> John Hall
>>             > >>
>>             > > Well, John
>>             > > Europe did adopt BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads
>>             > > back in the 19th century, difficult to change horses now.
>>             > > Quite a simple setup compared to the American system!
>>             > > Did you know that the US has 11 diffent derivatives of
>>             > > National Pipe threads?
>>             > > As for 11-1/2 tpi NPT, I bet many a lathe manufacturer
>>             > > swore when Norton invented the quick change gearbox for
>>             > > lathes and provision had to be made for that.
>>             > > In fact would say I have cut more peculiar threads of US
>>             > > origin that elsewhere.
>>             > > That goes for bearings also. Both Caterpillar and IH
>>             used to
>>             > > get bearings, especially taper-roller, ground to  their
>>             > > specific sizes, so that only they could supply, at a cost
>>             > > 5 to 10 times the cost of a standard size! Extortionate!
>>             > > Competition finally forced them into standardization
>>             in the finish.
>>             > > FMC was another who engaged in the practice in
>>             another field.
>>             > >
>>             > > Tom
>>             > > _______________________________________________
>>             > > AT mailing list
>>             > > AT at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>             <mailto:AT at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>             > >
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>>
>>
>>             >
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