[AT] Covid-19
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Thu Aug 6 18:11:01 PDT 2020
My delete button works just fine Al, the list has been slow lately, so
bring up an antique tractor issue.
Mike M
On 8/6/2020 7:07 PM, Al Jones wrote:
> (Banging head against wall)
>
> Unless an antique tractor can get COVID, can we PLEASE end this
> discussion now?
>
> Al
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2020, at 6:03 PM, Thomas Martin <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually it you Steve, who has been pontificating outside of your field.
>>
>> Our "English" in New Zealand has enabled us to limit deaths from
>>
>> Covid-19 to 4 per million of population, whereas the US "English"
>>
>> has "achieved" around 2,112 per million.
>>
>> In the US, supposedly because of your First Amendment, everybody,
>>
>> but everybody, has an overwhelming sense of entitlement to voicing an
>> opinion,
>>
>> no matter how ill-informed. Apparently, over-rides any sense of, for
>> the greater good.
>>
>> The World looks on, baffled at the pig's breakfast, the US is making
>> of this pandemic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 07 August 2020 at 00:39 Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Sounds" as in: not an expert, can't say for sure, but it "sounds"
>>> right. That's the exact opposite of pontification. Maybe the
>>> English language "sounds" different in NZ.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:58 PM Thomas Martin < tmartin at xtra.co.nz
>>> <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Sounds"? If Americans spent less time pontificating about their
>>> "presumed" knowledge
>>>
>>> about masks and more time wearing them, some progress might be made.
>>>
>>> That the wearing masks has become so politicized, thousands of
>>> people have died needlessly.
>>>
>>> It wasn't until the wearing of masks became the norm in the
>>> 1918-20 flu pandemic, that progress was made.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 06 August 2020 at 00:48 Stephen Offiler < soffiler at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This article from Dr Mercola's site sounds correct to me,
>>>> although it might be easily mis-interpreted. It seems to
>>>> stress that masks cannot PREVENT transmission via AEROSOLS.
>>>> That is factually correct. But that absolutely does NOT mean
>>>> masks are completely useless. As I stated elsewhere, it's a
>>>> statistics game. You can't prevent, but you can change the
>>>> odds in your favor. And aerosols are a less significant form of
>>>> transmission. Masks do help with the more significant form of
>>>> transmission, droplets.
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:21 PM guyiii guyiii < guyiii at cox.net
>>>> <mailto:guyiii at cox.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just in case anyone is willing to actually engage with
>>>> science instead of the-sky-is-falling rhetoric pushed by
>>>> the leftist media:
>>>>
>>>> https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/29/do-masks-help-with-coronavirus.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200729Z1&mid=DM607301&rid=927597377&fbclid=IwAR16cnLI6cfIMYau2O7nfMo2IKq7ao_pQqDUyHfN3PB9jgew26C5YlRhyBo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Guy-
>>>>
>>>> > On August 4, 2020 at 4:51 PM Thomas Martin <
>>>> tmartin at xtra.co.nz <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but until the
>>>> scientific community can get all the answers, we need to
>>>> take as many safety steps as we can so that we don’t become
>>>> a statistic.
>>>> > "
>>>> > News out of the US is that those safety steps have been
>>>> resisted by too many, from the top down.
>>>> >
>>>> > Coming from a country (NZ)that bit the bullet early,
>>>> those steps do work!
>>>> > We now have cases in isolation, only from returning
>>>> citizens, the country is
>>>> > 99% back to normality.
>>>> >
>>>> > Tom
>>>> >
>>>> > > On 05 August 2020 at 07:05 szabelski at wildblue.net
>>>> <mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I agree that there are too many unknowns, that’s why
>>>> you have to error on the side of caution. However,
>>>> 1,000,000 doses of vaccine that cost $2,000,000,000 relates
>>>> to $2,000 per dose, and that would only be enough for
>>>> roughly 1/3 of the US population. Who decides who gets it,
>>>> and who doesn’t. The people developing the vaccines still
>>>> have to cover the cost of all the research, which will
>>>> probably be more than what the government is funding them.
>>>> Also keep in mind that we are not talking about producing
>>>> vaccines for the US only, the whole world needs it, and you
>>>> know that greed will drive prices up, especially when
>>>> there’s a huge market of gotta haves (supply and demand
>>>> 101). There is no way for any company, or group of
>>>> companies, to make all the required doses at one time. A
>>>> black market will probably develop with inflated prices.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > A good portion of the rest of the world has signed an
>>>> agreement to share any vaccines, and not hoard them. The US
>>>> won’t sign up to that agreement. If we won’t share with
>>>> them, will they be willing to share with us if we don’t
>>>> have enough?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We have a history of releasing medications proven to be
>>>> safe, only to find the producers being sued later because
>>>> of side effects that developed. If you watch any amount of
>>>> TV you’ve seen some of the drug commercials that list
>>>> several side effects from using their proven drug,
>>>> sometimes it’s the same condition that you’re taking the
>>>> drug for, which doesn’t make sense to me, and sometimes
>>>> it’s even death.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but rushing to get
>>>> something out there as fast as possible, and taking
>>>> shortcuts to do it, doesn’t sound good to me. I’d rather
>>>> wait until they’re sure they’ve got something that works.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The references to the movies Contagion and I Am Legend
>>>> were only mentioned to point out how things can go bad when
>>>> it comes to a virus. Unlike all the zombie movies, they are
>>>> more realistic in their approach. I realize that movies can
>>>> stretch the truth and may not be based on actual facts.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In I Am Legend, a vaccine was issued to the whole
>>>> world, and the side affects weren’t realized until
>>>> everybody was vaccinated and it was too late.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In Contagion the story was how a virus from a bat
>>>> (sound familiar) could get transmitted to just one person,
>>>> and how that one person could start spreading the virus
>>>> around the world through ordinary people that started to
>>>> interact with each other.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but until the
>>>> scientific community can get all the answers, we need to
>>>> take as many safety steps as we can so that we don’t become
>>>> a statistic.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Carl
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: Henry Miller < hank at millerfarm.com
>>>> <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>>
>>>> > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Carl, there are too many unknowns to make such definite
>>>> statements. There are a dozen or more different vaccines in
>>>> the works, each working differently. Typically about 10%
>>>> are expected to make it through development to be given to
>>>> humans. Since each works differently we cannot say how they
>>>> will work. Maybe it will be like smallpox where it is gone
>>>> expect for a few labs and nobody even thinks about it.
>>>> Maybe it will be like measles and almost gone, but just
>>>> enough unvaccinated remain that it keeps coming back. Maybe
>>>> it will be like tetanus where you need regular boosters.
>>>> Maybe no vaccine will turn out to work. We don't know.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As for antibodies, again we don't know. A few people
>>>> have got Corvid-19 twice but we aren't sure if it is really
>>>> twice vs it wasn't fraught off completely and we detect it
>>>> again. Antibodies fading with time might or might not mean
>>>> that the body isn't immune after that, as the body
>>>> sometimes (only sometimes) can ramp up antibodies if
>>>> needed. And vaccines might create different antibodies that
>>>> last longer. Maybe, again there is much we don't know.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > You need a flu shit yearly because the flu mutates so
>>>> fast. Covid doesn't mutate as fast (not to be confused with
>>>> doesn't mutate) so there is a better chance if we get a
>>>> working vaccine to everyone it will stop all strains. But
>>>> again it is about chance. Of course knowledge of how to
>>>> make a working vaccine probably generalizes to making one
>>>> for the mutations much faster (which is why we have a
>>>> yearly flu shot instead of years of development for each)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Cost isn't clear either. Most will probably be cheap
>>>> because there is more money in a $10 shot everyone can
>>>> afford so 100 million people buy it than a million dollar
>>>> vaccine that only a handful of people can afford. A lot of
>>>> the research costs are being subsidized (by several
>>>> different countries) on condition of a cheap vaccine if it
>>>> works.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As for movies, I don't comment on fiction. It can be
>>>> fun but it isn't evidence of any truth.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Again, there are too many unknowns for those confident
>>>> statements you made.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I really need to burn this soapbox, but I'm sure
>>>> someone else will get me to jump on it soon.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > Henry Miller
>>>> > > hank at millerfarm.com <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, at 08:34, szabelski at wildblue.net
>>>> <mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net> wrote:
>>>> > > > It will never really be over. The virus is here and
>>>> it will be here
>>>> > > > forever, it will not disappear. Just like small pox,
>>>> measles, polio,
>>>> > > > etc., the viruses exist in or environment and will
>>>> always be here. We
>>>> > > > say we have eradicated them, but in reality, we have
>>>> only created
>>>> > > > vaccines that protect us from them, we have not
>>>> eradicated them. The
>>>> > > > same with the flu, it comes back every year,
>>>> sometimes it changes and
>>>> > > > the current vaccines don’t protect us, so we have to
>>>> get a newer
>>>> > > > vaccine shot.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > The issue with COVID is that the planned vaccines
>>>> will only create
>>>> > > > anti-bodies to fight the virus. However, studies show
>>>> that the
>>>> > > > anti-bodies will only last about three to four
>>>> months. That would
>>>> > > > indicate that you would need a booster shot every
>>>> three to four months.
>>>> > > > At an anticipated cost of $2,000 per shot, a family
>>>> of four will have
>>>> > > > to spend $24,000 to $32,000 a year on shots. Will the
>>>> insurance
>>>> > > > companies pay for all this? There have been some
>>>> people who made it
>>>> > > > through the virus once, had anti-bodies, and then got
>>>> the virus again
>>>> > > > few months later.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > A true vaccine is needed in order to put this issue
>>>> to bed, and
>>>> > > > hopefully the current strain of the virus doesn’t
>>>> evolve and change
>>>> > > > like the current flu strains do. Another issue is
>>>> that we are fast
>>>> > > > tracking the vaccines and won’t know the side affects
>>>> for some time. I
>>>> > > > would hate to find out that we are all vaccinated and
>>>> protected against
>>>> > > > COVID, but then we all develop heart, liver, kidney,
>>>> or lung issues at
>>>> > > > a later date.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > There are two movies that come to mind in this time.
>>>> One is “Contagine”
>>>> > > > (spelling?) that follows a world wide pandemic from
>>>> start to finish,
>>>> > > > only in reverse order. The other is “I AM LEGEND”
>>>> that shows what
>>>> > > > happens when everybody is vaccinated with a vaccine
>>>> to protect against
>>>> > > > cancer, and then the world population experience a
>>>> side affect that
>>>> > > > basically turns them into a population that can’t
>>>> tolerate sunlight and
>>>> > > > becomes somewhat sub-human.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Our life styles are going to change because of COVID
>>>> and we are going
>>>> > > > to have to adapt. Will we have to wear masks for the
>>>> rest of our lives?
>>>> > > > Will the hand shake go the way of the dinosaur? Will
>>>> weddings an other
>>>> > > > gathering have to be held in certified
>>>> environmentally controlled
>>>> > > > facilities? Only time will tell, and I personally
>>>> don’t think it will
>>>> > > > be soon. At the beginning COVID was reported to only
>>>> affecting the old
>>>> > > > and sick, not the younger population.Then it started
>>>> to show up in the
>>>> > > > younger population. Now it’s showing up in children.
>>>> While the younger
>>>> > > > population and children may not be affected as bad
>>>> and aren’t dying by
>>>> > > > the hundreds, they can still spread the virus. As
>>>> long as the virus can
>>>> > > > be spread there will always be someone who contracts
>>>> it and
>>>> > > > unfortunately dies.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > My wife and I wear masks, and avoid going anywhere
>>>> unless it is
>>>> > > > necessary. We still work with the local food pantry,
>>>> but have changed
>>>> > > > how we distribute the food. We don’t go to church on
>>>> Sundays any more.
>>>> > > > We aren’t boarding up the windows and doors, but we
>>>> don’t do anything
>>>> > > > that we don’t really have to do. We aren’t going to
>>>> take any chances
>>>> > > > that we don’t have to since the scientific community
>>>> is still learning
>>>> > > > more and more about this virus and they don’t have
>>>> all the answers
>>>> > > > figured out yet.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Sorry if this is long winded. Stay safe.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Carl
>>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > > From: ustonThomas Mehrkam < tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net
>>>> <mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>>
>>>> > > > To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <
>>>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>>> > > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I cannot understand the Mask Issue. Yes it is a
>>>> P.I.A. to wear a mask
>>>> > > > but that is the only way we can get out now a days
>>>> with a little
>>>> > > > safety. I am living in a Rural area and there have
>>>> been quite a number
>>>> > > > that refuse to wear masks. It has gotten a little
>>>> better the last few
>>>> > > > weeks. Businesses can be fined for not enforcing
>>>> masks inside their
>>>> > > > businesses. That has helped a bunch but you still
>>>> see a few holdouts.
>>>> > > > Sorry about your friend. We have had some family
>>>> members with Covid-19
>>>> > > > but they did not have much of a problem with it and
>>>> have recovered.
>>>> > > > Will this ever be over. I want to make an RV trip to
>>>> Alaska.
>>>> > > > Hopefully. I will be able to do that in the next
>>>> couple of years. I
>>>> > > > would like to Experience Alaska in the Summer instead
>>>> of the dead of
>>>> > > > winter working on Seismic Equipment. That was
>>>> interesting but ICE is
>>>> > > > not my thing. I was born in Texas and it is too darn
>>>> cold up there in
>>>> > > > the winter.
>>>> > > > Stay safe.
>>>> > > > Tom Mehrkam social distancing on 50 acres just
>>>> outside Waller Tx.
>>>> > > > On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 12:57:26 AM CDT,
>>>> Mattias Kessén
>>>> > > > < davidbrown950 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:davidbrown950 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I have of course never met Raymond but I sympathize
>>>> with your loss,
>>>> > > > you, of course the family and all other that knew
>>>> him. These are
>>>> > > > terrible and strange times.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Med vänlig hälsning
>>>> > > > Mattias Kessén
>>>> > > > Hässelstad Solhöjden 2594 93 Gamleby
>>>> > > > 070-523 59 00
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Den tis 4 aug. 2020 kl 07:14 skrev Spencer Yost <
>>>> spencer at rdfarms.com <mailto:spencer at rdfarms.com>>:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > It hit home.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I say this with a heavy heart, as many of you
>>>> attending Portland may
>>>> > > > have met him. While at Portland I introduced a few of
>>>> you to a fellow
>>>> > > > named Raymond Craft. He was part of the the local
>>>> home town Pfafftown
>>>> > > > contingency that attended the Tri-State show. He
>>>> attended the Portland
>>>> > > > show along with Bill Gannoway most years and a few
>>>> others. We were all
>>>> > > > good friends and neighbors and were part of the local
>>>> Rust And Dust
>>>> > > > club that sponsored the the local tractor show many
>>>> of you attended.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Raymond died of COVID-19 about 10 days ago. He was
>>>> one of those “masks
>>>> > > > are for pussies“ kind of guys. I wonder if his three
>>>> daughters, three
>>>> > > > grandkids and wife are thinking the same thing these
>>>> days.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I saw him and spoke with him(thank God with a mask
>>>> on) at a funeral
>>>> > > > about 15 days before he died. I miss him already as
>>>> he was a stand-up
>>>> > > > guy. He was also your go-to-guy for Farmall “H”
>>>> tractors. I’ll bet
>>>> > > > his estate now owns about 15-20 of them.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I hope all y’all are being careful. Sorry to vent but
>>>> he leaves a hole
>>>> > > > in my heart. I’ll miss seeing him at the local
>>>> breakfast diner and
>>>> > > > talking tractors.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Spencer
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > AT mailing list
>>>> > > > AT at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> <mailto:AT at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> > > >
>>>> http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com
>>>>
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > > >
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>>>>
>>>> > > >
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