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My delete button works just fine Al, the list has been slow lately,
so bring up an antique tractor issue.<br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/6/2020 7:07 PM, Al Jones wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F4B835C0-0BB5-4872-B063-36E9863B0406@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
(Banging head against wall)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unless an antique tractor can get COVID, can we PLEASE end
this discussion now?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Al<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Aug 6, 2020, at 6:03 PM, Thomas
Martin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"><tmartin@xtra.co.nz></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<p>Actually it you Steve, who has been pontificating outside
of your field.<br>
</p>
<p>Our "English" in New Zealand has enabled us to limit
deaths from </p>
<p>Covid-19 to 4 per million of population, whereas the US
"English"</p>
<p>has "achieved" around 2,112 per million.<br>
</p>
<p>In the US, supposedly because of your First Amendment,
everybody,</p>
<p> but everybody, has an overwhelming sense of entitlement
to voicing an opinion,</p>
<p>no matter how ill-informed. Apparently, over-rides any
sense of, for the greater good.<br>
</p>
<p>The World looks on, baffled at the pig's breakfast, the
US is making of this pandemic.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On 07 August 2020 at 00:39 Stephen
Offiler <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"><soffiler@gmail.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">"Sounds" as in: not an expert, can't say
for sure, but it "sounds" right. That's the exact
opposite of pontification. Maybe the English language
"sounds" different in NZ.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div>SO</div>
<br>
<div class="ox-2cfd9b53d0-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-2cfd9b53d0-gmail_attr">On
Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:58 PM Thomas Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote: <br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>"Sounds"? If Americans spent less time
pontificating about their "presumed" knowledge</p>
<p>about masks and more time wearing them, some
progress might be made.<br>
</p>
<p>That the wearing masks has become so
politicized, thousands of people have died
needlessly.<br>
</p>
<p>It wasn't until the wearing of masks became the
norm in the 1918-20 flu pandemic, that progress
was made.<br>
</p>
<p>Tom<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On 06 August 2020 at 00:48
Stephen Offiler < <a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">This article from Dr Mercola's
site sounds correct to me, although it might
be easily mis-interpreted. It seems to stress
that masks cannot PREVENT transmission via
AEROSOLS. That is factually correct. But
that absolutely does NOT mean masks are
completely useless. As I stated elsewhere,
it's a statistics game. You can't prevent,
but you can change the odds in your favor.
And aerosols are a less significant form of
transmission. Masks do help with the more
significant form of transmission, droplets.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SO</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:21 PM
guyiii guyiii < <a
href="mailto:guyiii@cox.net"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">guyiii@cox.net</a>>
wrote: <br>
</div>
<blockquote>Just in case anyone is willing to
actually engage with science instead of
the-sky-is-falling rhetoric pushed by the
leftist media: <br>
<br>
<a
href="https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/29/do-masks-help-with-coronavirus.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200729Z1&mid=DM607301&rid=927597377&fbclid=IwAR16cnLI6cfIMYau2O7nfMo2IKq7ao_pQqDUyHfN3PB9jgew26C5YlRhyBo"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/29/do-masks-help-with-coronavirus.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200729Z1&mid=DM607301&rid=927597377&fbclid=IwAR16cnLI6cfIMYau2O7nfMo2IKq7ao_pQqDUyHfN3PB9jgew26C5YlRhyBo</a>
<br>
<br>
-Guy- <br>
<br>
> On August 4, 2020 at 4:51 PM Thomas
Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote: <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> "Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist,
but until the scientific community can get
all the answers, we need to take as many
safety steps as we can so that we don’t
become a statistic. <br>
> " <br>
> News out of the US is that those safety
steps have been resisted by too many, from
the top down. <br>
> <br>
> Coming from a country (NZ)that bit the
bullet early, those steps do work! <br>
> We now have cases in isolation, only
from returning citizens, the country is <br>
> 99% back to normality. <br>
> <br>
> Tom <br>
> <br>
> > On 05 August 2020 at 07:05 <a
href="mailto:szabelski@wildblue.net"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">szabelski@wildblue.net</a>
wrote: <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > I agree that there are too many
unknowns, that’s why you have to error on
the side of caution. However, 1,000,000
doses of vaccine that cost $2,000,000,000
relates to $2,000 per dose, and that would
only be enough for roughly 1/3 of the US
population. Who decides who gets it, and who
doesn’t. The people developing the vaccines
still have to cover the cost of all the
research, which will probably be more than
what the government is funding them. Also
keep in mind that we are not talking about
producing vaccines for the US only, the
whole world needs it, and you know that
greed will drive prices up, especially when
there’s a huge market of gotta haves (supply
and demand 101). There is no way for any
company, or group of companies, to make all
the required doses at one time. A black
market will probably develop with inflated
prices. <br>
> > <br>
> > A good portion of the rest of the
world has signed an agreement to share any
vaccines, and not hoard them. The US won’t
sign up to that agreement. If we won’t share
with them, will they be willing to share
with us if we don’t have enough? <br>
> > <br>
> > We have a history of releasing
medications proven to be safe, only to find
the producers being sued later because of
side effects that developed. If you watch
any amount of TV you’ve seen some of the
drug commercials that list several side
effects from using their proven drug,
sometimes it’s the same condition that
you’re taking the drug for, which doesn’t
make sense to me, and sometimes it’s even
death. <br>
> > <br>
> > I don’t mean to be an alarmist,
but rushing to get something out there as
fast as possible, and taking shortcuts to do
it, doesn’t sound good to me. I’d rather
wait until they’re sure they’ve got
something that works. <br>
> > <br>
> > The references to the movies
Contagion and I Am Legend were only
mentioned to point out how things can go bad
when it comes to a virus. Unlike all the
zombie movies, they are more realistic in
their approach. I realize that movies can
stretch the truth and may not be based on
actual facts. <br>
> > <br>
> > In I Am Legend, a vaccine was
issued to the whole world, and the side
affects weren’t realized until everybody was
vaccinated and it was too late. <br>
> > <br>
> > In Contagion the story was how a
virus from a bat (sound familiar) could get
transmitted to just one person, and how that
one person could start spreading the virus
around the world through ordinary people
that started to interact with each other. <br>
> > <br>
> > Again, I don’t mean to be an
alarmist, but until the scientific community
can get all the answers, we need to take as
many safety steps as we can so that we don’t
become a statistic. <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Carl <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> > From: Henry Miller < <a
href="mailto:hank@millerfarm.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">hank@millerfarm.com</a>>
<br>
> > To: <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<br>
> > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:46:05
-0400 (EDT) <br>
> > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19 <br>
> > <br>
> > Carl, there are too many unknowns
to make such definite statements. There are
a dozen or more different vaccines in the
works, each working differently. Typically
about 10% are expected to make it through
development to be given to humans. Since
each works differently we cannot say how
they will work. Maybe it will be like
smallpox where it is gone expect for a few
labs and nobody even thinks about it. Maybe
it will be like measles and almost gone, but
just enough unvaccinated remain that it
keeps coming back. Maybe it will be like
tetanus where you need regular boosters.
Maybe no vaccine will turn out to work. We
don't know. <br>
> > <br>
> > As for antibodies, again we don't
know. A few people have got Corvid-19 twice
but we aren't sure if it is really twice vs
it wasn't fraught off completely and we
detect it again. Antibodies fading with time
might or might not mean that the body isn't
immune after that, as the body sometimes
(only sometimes) can ramp up antibodies if
needed. And vaccines might create different
antibodies that last longer. Maybe, again
there is much we don't know. <br>
> > <br>
> > You need a flu shit yearly because
the flu mutates so fast. Covid doesn't
mutate as fast (not to be confused with
doesn't mutate) so there is a better chance
if we get a working vaccine to everyone it
will stop all strains. But again it is about
chance. Of course knowledge of how to make a
working vaccine probably generalizes to
making one for the mutations much faster
(which is why we have a yearly flu shot
instead of years of development for each) <br>
> > <br>
> > Cost isn't clear either. Most will
probably be cheap because there is more
money in a $10 shot everyone can afford so
100 million people buy it than a million
dollar vaccine that only a handful of people
can afford. A lot of the research costs are
being subsidized (by several different
countries) on condition of a cheap vaccine
if it works. <br>
> > <br>
> > As for movies, I don't comment on
fiction. It can be fun but it isn't evidence
of any truth. <br>
> > <br>
> > Again, there are too many unknowns
for those confident statements you made. <br>
> > <br>
> > I really need to burn this
soapbox, but I'm sure someone else will get
me to jump on it soon. <br>
> > <br>
> > -- <br>
> > Henry Miller <br>
> > <a
href="mailto:hank@millerfarm.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">hank@millerfarm.com</a>
<br>
> > <br>
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, at 08:34, <a
href="mailto:szabelski@wildblue.net"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">szabelski@wildblue.net</a>
wrote: <br>
> > > It will never really be over.
The virus is here and it will be here <br>
> > > forever, it will not
disappear. Just like small pox, measles,
polio, <br>
> > > etc., the viruses exist in or
environment and will always be here. We <br>
> > > say we have eradicated them,
but in reality, we have only created <br>
> > > vaccines that protect us from
them, we have not eradicated them. The <br>
> > > same with the flu, it comes
back every year, sometimes it changes and <br>
> > > the current vaccines don’t
protect us, so we have to get a newer <br>
> > > vaccine shot. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > The issue with COVID is that
the planned vaccines will only create <br>
> > > anti-bodies to fight the
virus. However, studies show that the <br>
> > > anti-bodies will only last
about three to four months. That would <br>
> > > indicate that you would need
a booster shot every three to four months. <br>
> > > At an anticipated cost of
$2,000 per shot, a family of four will have
<br>
> > > to spend $24,000 to $32,000 a
year on shots. Will the insurance <br>
> > > companies pay for all this?
There have been some people who made it <br>
> > > through the virus once, had
anti-bodies, and then got the virus again <br>
> > > few months later. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > A true vaccine is needed in
order to put this issue to bed, and <br>
> > > hopefully the current strain
of the virus doesn’t evolve and change <br>
> > > like the current flu strains
do. Another issue is that we are fast <br>
> > > tracking the vaccines and
won’t know the side affects for some time. I
<br>
> > > would hate to find out that
we are all vaccinated and protected against
<br>
> > > COVID, but then we all
develop heart, liver, kidney, or lung issues
at <br>
> > > a later date. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > There are two movies that
come to mind in this time. One is
“Contagine” <br>
> > > (spelling?) that follows a
world wide pandemic from start to finish, <br>
> > > only in reverse order. The
other is “I AM LEGEND” that shows what <br>
> > > happens when everybody is
vaccinated with a vaccine to protect against
<br>
> > > cancer, and then the world
population experience a side affect that <br>
> > > basically turns them into a
population that can’t tolerate sunlight and
<br>
> > > becomes somewhat sub-human. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Our life styles are going to
change because of COVID and we are going <br>
> > > to have to adapt. Will we
have to wear masks for the rest of our
lives? <br>
> > > Will the hand shake go the
way of the dinosaur? Will weddings an other
<br>
> > > gathering have to be held in
certified environmentally controlled <br>
> > > facilities? Only time will
tell, and I personally don’t think it will <br>
> > > be soon. At the beginning
COVID was reported to only affecting the old
<br>
> > > and sick, not the younger
population.Then it started to show up in the
<br>
> > > younger population. Now it’s
showing up in children. While the younger <br>
> > > population and children may
not be affected as bad and aren’t dying by <br>
> > > the hundreds, they can still
spread the virus. As long as the virus can <br>
> > > be spread there will always
be someone who contracts it and <br>
> > > unfortunately dies. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > My wife and I wear masks, and
avoid going anywhere unless it is <br>
> > > necessary. We still work with
the local food pantry, but have changed <br>
> > > how we distribute the food.
We don’t go to church on Sundays any more. <br>
> > > We aren’t boarding up the
windows and doors, but we don’t do anything
<br>
> > > that we don’t really have to
do. We aren’t going to take any chances <br>
> > > that we don’t have to since
the scientific community is still learning <br>
> > > more and more about this
virus and they don’t have all the answers <br>
> > > figured out yet. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Sorry if this is long winded.
Stay safe. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Carl <br>
> > > ----- Original Message -----
<br>
> > > From: ustonThomas Mehrkam
< <a
href="mailto:tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmehrkam@sbcglobal.net</a>>
<br>
> > > To: Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group < <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<br>
> > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020
08:42:06 -0400 (EDT) <br>
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19 <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I cannot understand the Mask
Issue. Yes it is a P.I.A. to wear a mask <br>
> > > but that is the only way we
can get out now a days with a little <br>
> > > safety. I am living in a
Rural area and there have been quite a
number <br>
> > > that refuse to wear masks.
It has gotten a little better the last few <br>
> > > weeks. Businesses can be
fined for not enforcing masks inside their <br>
> > > businesses. That has helped
a bunch but you still see a few holdouts. <br>
> > > Sorry about your friend. We
have had some family members with Covid-19 <br>
> > > but they did not have much of
a problem with it and have recovered. <br>
> > > Will this ever be over. I
want to make an RV trip to Alaska. <br>
> > > Hopefully. I will be able to
do that in the next couple of years. I <br>
> > > would like to Experience
Alaska in the Summer instead of the dead of
<br>
> > > winter working on Seismic
Equipment. That was interesting but ICE is
<br>
> > > not my thing. I was born in
Texas and it is too darn cold up there in <br>
> > > the winter. <br>
> > > Stay safe. <br>
> > > Tom Mehrkam social distancing
on 50 acres just outside Waller Tx. <br>
> > > On Tuesday, August 4,
2020, 12:57:26 AM CDT, Mattias Kessén <br>
> > > < <a
href="mailto:davidbrown950@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">davidbrown950@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I have of course never met
Raymond but I sympathize with your loss, <br>
> > > you, of course the family and
all other that knew him. These are <br>
> > > terrible and strange times. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Med vänlig hälsning <br>
> > > Mattias Kessén <br>
> > > Hässelstad Solhöjden 2594 93
Gamleby <br>
> > > 070-523 59 00 <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Den tis 4 aug. 2020 kl 07:14
skrev Spencer Yost < <a
href="mailto:spencer@rdfarms.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">spencer@rdfarms.com</a>>:
<br>
> > > <br>
> > > It hit home. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I say this with a heavy
heart, as many of you attending Portland may
<br>
> > > have met him. While at
Portland I introduced a few of you to a
fellow <br>
> > > named Raymond Craft. He was
part of the the local home town Pfafftown <br>
> > > contingency that attended the
Tri-State show. He attended the Portland <br>
> > > show along with Bill Gannoway
most years and a few others. We were all <br>
> > > good friends and neighbors
and were part of the local Rust And Dust <br>
> > > club that sponsored the the
local tractor show many of you attended. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Raymond died of COVID-19
about 10 days ago. He was one of those
“masks <br>
> > > are for pussies“ kind of
guys. I wonder if his three daughters, three
<br>
> > > grandkids and wife are
thinking the same thing these days. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I saw him and spoke with
him(thank God with a mask on) at a funeral <br>
> > > about 15 days before he
died. I miss him already as he was a
stand-up <br>
> > > guy. He was also your
go-to-guy for Farmall “H” tractors. I’ll
bet <br>
> > > his estate now owns about
15-20 of them. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I hope all y’all are being
careful. Sorry to vent but he leaves a hole
<br>
> > > in my heart. I’ll miss
seeing him at the local breakfast diner and
<br>
> > > talking tractors. <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Spencer <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Sent from my iPhone <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Sent from my iPhone <br>
> > >
_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a> <br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
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