[AT] Covid-19
Al Jones
farmallsupera1 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 6 04:24:43 PDT 2020
This is one of the few places I can go on the www and not hear about the $&%# China flu, and now this thread.... :/
Al
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:15 PM, Carl Baker or Kim Lessor <hodor at warmrock.net> wrote:
>
>
> Mercola might be saying something reasonable (or that sounds reasonable) but he's objectively a quack.
>
> https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/tag/joe-mercola/
>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:39 PM Thomas Martin <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> "Sounds"? If Americans spent less time pontificating about their "presumed" knowledge
>>
>> about masks and more time wearing them, some progress might be made.
>>
>> That the wearing masks has become so politicized, thousands of people have died needlessly.
>>
>> It wasn't until the wearing of masks became the norm in the 1918-20 flu pandemic, that progress was made.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 06 August 2020 at 00:48 Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This article from Dr Mercola's site sounds correct to me, although it might be easily mis-interpreted. It seems to stress that masks cannot PREVENT transmission via AEROSOLS. That is factually correct. But that absolutely does NOT mean masks are completely useless. As I stated elsewhere, it's a statistics game. You can't prevent, but you can change the odds in your favor. And aerosols are a less significant form of transmission. Masks do help with the more significant form of transmission, droplets.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:21 PM guyiii guyiii < guyiii at cox.net> wrote:
>>> Just in case anyone is willing to actually engage with science instead of the-sky-is-falling rhetoric pushed by the leftist media:
>>>
>>> https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/29/do-masks-help-with-coronavirus.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200729Z1&mid=DM607301&rid=927597377&fbclid=IwAR16cnLI6cfIMYau2O7nfMo2IKq7ao_pQqDUyHfN3PB9jgew26C5YlRhyBo
>>>
>>> -Guy-
>>>
>>> > On August 4, 2020 at 4:51 PM Thomas Martin < tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but until the scientific community can get all the answers, we need to take as many safety steps as we can so that we don’t become a statistic.
>>> > "
>>> > News out of the US is that those safety steps have been resisted by too many, from the top down.
>>> >
>>> > Coming from a country (NZ)that bit the bullet early, those steps do work!
>>> > We now have cases in isolation, only from returning citizens, the country is
>>> > 99% back to normality.
>>> >
>>> > Tom
>>> >
>>> > > On 05 August 2020 at 07:05 szabelski at wildblue.net wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > I agree that there are too many unknowns, that’s why you have to error on the side of caution. However, 1,000,000 doses of vaccine that cost $2,000,000,000 relates to $2,000 per dose, and that would only be enough for roughly 1/3 of the US population. Who decides who gets it, and who doesn’t. The people developing the vaccines still have to cover the cost of all the research, which will probably be more than what the government is funding them. Also keep in mind that we are not talking about producing vaccines for the US only, the whole world needs it, and you know that greed will drive prices up, especially when there’s a huge market of gotta haves (supply and demand 101). There is no way for any company, or group of companies, to make all the required doses at one time. A black market will probably develop with inflated prices.
>>> > >
>>> > > A good portion of the rest of the world has signed an agreement to share any vaccines, and not hoard them. The US won’t sign up to that agreement. If we won’t share with them, will they be willing to share with us if we don’t have enough?
>>> > >
>>> > > We have a history of releasing medications proven to be safe, only to find the producers being sued later because of side effects that developed. If you watch any amount of TV you’ve seen some of the drug commercials that list several side effects from using their proven drug, sometimes it’s the same condition that you’re taking the drug for, which doesn’t make sense to me, and sometimes it’s even death.
>>> > >
>>> > > I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but rushing to get something out there as fast as possible, and taking shortcuts to do it, doesn’t sound good to me. I’d rather wait until they’re sure they’ve got something that works.
>>> > >
>>> > > The references to the movies Contagion and I Am Legend were only mentioned to point out how things can go bad when it comes to a virus. Unlike all the zombie movies, they are more realistic in their approach. I realize that movies can stretch the truth and may not be based on actual facts.
>>> > >
>>> > > In I Am Legend, a vaccine was issued to the whole world, and the side affects weren’t realized until everybody was vaccinated and it was too late.
>>> > >
>>> > > In Contagion the story was how a virus from a bat (sound familiar) could get transmitted to just one person, and how that one person could start spreading the virus around the world through ordinary people that started to interact with each other.
>>> > >
>>> > > Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but until the scientific community can get all the answers, we need to take as many safety steps as we can so that we don’t become a statistic.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Carl
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > From: Henry Miller < hank at millerfarm.com>
>>> > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
>>> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
>>> > >
>>> > > Carl, there are too many unknowns to make such definite statements. There are a dozen or more different vaccines in the works, each working differently. Typically about 10% are expected to make it through development to be given to humans. Since each works differently we cannot say how they will work. Maybe it will be like smallpox where it is gone expect for a few labs and nobody even thinks about it. Maybe it will be like measles and almost gone, but just enough unvaccinated remain that it keeps coming back. Maybe it will be like tetanus where you need regular boosters. Maybe no vaccine will turn out to work. We don't know.
>>> > >
>>> > > As for antibodies, again we don't know. A few people have got Corvid-19 twice but we aren't sure if it is really twice vs it wasn't fraught off completely and we detect it again. Antibodies fading with time might or might not mean that the body isn't immune after that, as the body sometimes (only sometimes) can ramp up antibodies if needed. And vaccines might create different antibodies that last longer. Maybe, again there is much we don't know.
>>> > >
>>> > > You need a flu shit yearly because the flu mutates so fast. Covid doesn't mutate as fast (not to be confused with doesn't mutate) so there is a better chance if we get a working vaccine to everyone it will stop all strains. But again it is about chance. Of course knowledge of how to make a working vaccine probably generalizes to making one for the mutations much faster (which is why we have a yearly flu shot instead of years of development for each)
>>> > >
>>> > > Cost isn't clear either. Most will probably be cheap because there is more money in a $10 shot everyone can afford so 100 million people buy it than a million dollar vaccine that only a handful of people can afford. A lot of the research costs are being subsidized (by several different countries) on condition of a cheap vaccine if it works.
>>> > >
>>> > > As for movies, I don't comment on fiction. It can be fun but it isn't evidence of any truth.
>>> > >
>>> > > Again, there are too many unknowns for those confident statements you made.
>>> > >
>>> > > I really need to burn this soapbox, but I'm sure someone else will get me to jump on it soon.
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Henry Miller
>>> > > hank at millerfarm.com
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, at 08:34, szabelski at wildblue.net wrote:
>>> > > > It will never really be over. The virus is here and it will be here
>>> > > > forever, it will not disappear. Just like small pox, measles, polio,
>>> > > > etc., the viruses exist in or environment and will always be here. We
>>> > > > say we have eradicated them, but in reality, we have only created
>>> > > > vaccines that protect us from them, we have not eradicated them. The
>>> > > > same with the flu, it comes back every year, sometimes it changes and
>>> > > > the current vaccines don’t protect us, so we have to get a newer
>>> > > > vaccine shot.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > The issue with COVID is that the planned vaccines will only create
>>> > > > anti-bodies to fight the virus. However, studies show that the
>>> > > > anti-bodies will only last about three to four months. That would
>>> > > > indicate that you would need a booster shot every three to four months.
>>> > > > At an anticipated cost of $2,000 per shot, a family of four will have
>>> > > > to spend $24,000 to $32,000 a year on shots. Will the insurance
>>> > > > companies pay for all this? There have been some people who made it
>>> > > > through the virus once, had anti-bodies, and then got the virus again
>>> > > > few months later.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > A true vaccine is needed in order to put this issue to bed, and
>>> > > > hopefully the current strain of the virus doesn’t evolve and change
>>> > > > like the current flu strains do. Another issue is that we are fast
>>> > > > tracking the vaccines and won’t know the side affects for some time. I
>>> > > > would hate to find out that we are all vaccinated and protected against
>>> > > > COVID, but then we all develop heart, liver, kidney, or lung issues at
>>> > > > a later date.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > There are two movies that come to mind in this time. One is “Contagine”
>>> > > > (spelling?) that follows a world wide pandemic from start to finish,
>>> > > > only in reverse order. The other is “I AM LEGEND” that shows what
>>> > > > happens when everybody is vaccinated with a vaccine to protect against
>>> > > > cancer, and then the world population experience a side affect that
>>> > > > basically turns them into a population that can’t tolerate sunlight and
>>> > > > becomes somewhat sub-human.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Our life styles are going to change because of COVID and we are going
>>> > > > to have to adapt. Will we have to wear masks for the rest of our lives?
>>> > > > Will the hand shake go the way of the dinosaur? Will weddings an other
>>> > > > gathering have to be held in certified environmentally controlled
>>> > > > facilities? Only time will tell, and I personally don’t think it will
>>> > > > be soon. At the beginning COVID was reported to only affecting the old
>>> > > > and sick, not the younger population.Then it started to show up in the
>>> > > > younger population. Now it’s showing up in children. While the younger
>>> > > > population and children may not be affected as bad and aren’t dying by
>>> > > > the hundreds, they can still spread the virus. As long as the virus can
>>> > > > be spread there will always be someone who contracts it and
>>> > > > unfortunately dies.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > My wife and I wear masks, and avoid going anywhere unless it is
>>> > > > necessary. We still work with the local food pantry, but have changed
>>> > > > how we distribute the food. We don’t go to church on Sundays any more.
>>> > > > We aren’t boarding up the windows and doors, but we don’t do anything
>>> > > > that we don’t really have to do. We aren’t going to take any chances
>>> > > > that we don’t have to since the scientific community is still learning
>>> > > > more and more about this virus and they don’t have all the answers
>>> > > > figured out yet.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Sorry if this is long winded. Stay safe.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Carl
>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > > From: ustonThomas Mehrkam < tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
>>> > > > To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group < at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> > > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
>>> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I cannot understand the Mask Issue. Yes it is a P.I.A. to wear a mask
>>> > > > but that is the only way we can get out now a days with a little
>>> > > > safety. I am living in a Rural area and there have been quite a number
>>> > > > that refuse to wear masks. It has gotten a little better the last few
>>> > > > weeks. Businesses can be fined for not enforcing masks inside their
>>> > > > businesses. That has helped a bunch but you still see a few holdouts.
>>> > > > Sorry about your friend. We have had some family members with Covid-19
>>> > > > but they did not have much of a problem with it and have recovered.
>>> > > > Will this ever be over. I want to make an RV trip to Alaska.
>>> > > > Hopefully. I will be able to do that in the next couple of years. I
>>> > > > would like to Experience Alaska in the Summer instead of the dead of
>>> > > > winter working on Seismic Equipment. That was interesting but ICE is
>>> > > > not my thing. I was born in Texas and it is too darn cold up there in
>>> > > > the winter.
>>> > > > Stay safe.
>>> > > > Tom Mehrkam social distancing on 50 acres just outside Waller Tx.
>>> > > > On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 12:57:26 AM CDT, Mattias Kessén
>>> > > > < davidbrown950 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I have of course never met Raymond but I sympathize with your loss,
>>> > > > you, of course the family and all other that knew him. These are
>>> > > > terrible and strange times.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Med vänlig hälsning
>>> > > > Mattias Kessén
>>> > > > Hässelstad Solhöjden 2594 93 Gamleby
>>> > > > 070-523 59 00
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Den tis 4 aug. 2020 kl 07:14 skrev Spencer Yost < spencer at rdfarms.com>:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > It hit home.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I say this with a heavy heart, as many of you attending Portland may
>>> > > > have met him. While at Portland I introduced a few of you to a fellow
>>> > > > named Raymond Craft. He was part of the the local home town Pfafftown
>>> > > > contingency that attended the Tri-State show. He attended the Portland
>>> > > > show along with Bill Gannoway most years and a few others. We were all
>>> > > > good friends and neighbors and were part of the local Rust And Dust
>>> > > > club that sponsored the the local tractor show many of you attended.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Raymond died of COVID-19 about 10 days ago. He was one of those “masks
>>> > > > are for pussies“ kind of guys. I wonder if his three daughters, three
>>> > > > grandkids and wife are thinking the same thing these days.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I saw him and spoke with him(thank God with a mask on) at a funeral
>>> > > > about 15 days before he died. I miss him already as he was a stand-up
>>> > > > guy. He was also your go-to-guy for Farmall “H” tractors. I’ll bet
>>> > > > his estate now owns about 15-20 of them.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I hope all y’all are being careful. Sorry to vent but he leaves a hole
>>> > > > in my heart. I’ll miss seeing him at the local breakfast diner and
>>> > > > talking tractors.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Spencer
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
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