[AT] Covid-19

Wed Aug 5 16:14:50 PDT 2020

Mercola might be saying something reasonable (or that sounds reasonable)
but he's objectively a quack.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/tag/joe-mercola/

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:39 PM Thomas Martin <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> "Sounds"? If Americans spent less time pontificating about their
> "presumed" knowledge
>
> about masks and more time wearing them, some progress might be made.
>
> That the wearing masks has become so politicized, thousands of people have
> died needlessly.
>
> It wasn't until the wearing of masks became the norm in the 1918-20 flu
> pandemic, that progress was made.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 06 August 2020 at 00:48 Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This article from Dr Mercola's site sounds correct to me, although it
> might be easily mis-interpreted.  It seems to stress that masks cannot
> PREVENT transmission via AEROSOLS.  That is factually correct.  But that
> absolutely does NOT mean masks are completely useless.  As I stated
> elsewhere, it's a statistics game.  You can't prevent, but you can change
> the odds in your favor.  And aerosols are a less significant form of
> transmission.  Masks do help with the more significant form of
> transmission, droplets.
>
> SO
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:21 PM guyiii guyiii < guyiii at cox.net> wrote:
>
> Just in case anyone is willing to actually engage with science instead of
> the-sky-is-falling rhetoric pushed by the leftist media:
>
>
> https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/29/do-masks-help-with-coronavirus.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200729Z1&mid=DM607301&rid=927597377&fbclid=IwAR16cnLI6cfIMYau2O7nfMo2IKq7ao_pQqDUyHfN3PB9jgew26C5YlRhyBo
>
> -Guy-
>
> > On August 4, 2020 at 4:51 PM Thomas Martin < tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >
> > "Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but until the scientific
> community can get all the answers, we need to take as many safety steps as
> we can so that we don’t become a statistic.
> > "
> > News out of the US is that those safety steps have been resisted by too
> many, from the top down.
> >
> > Coming from a country (NZ)that bit the bullet early, those steps do
> work!
> > We now have cases in isolation, only from returning citizens, the
> country is
> > 99% back to normality.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > > On 05 August 2020 at 07:05 szabelski at wildblue.net wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree that there are too many unknowns, that’s why you have to error
> on the side of caution. However, 1,000,000 doses of vaccine that cost
> $2,000,000,000 relates to $2,000 per dose, and that would only be enough
> for roughly 1/3 of the US population. Who decides who gets it, and who
> doesn’t.  The people developing the vaccines still have to cover the cost
> of all the research, which will probably be more than what the government
> is funding them. Also keep in mind that we are not talking about producing
> vaccines for the US only, the whole world needs it, and you know that greed
> will drive prices up, especially when there’s a huge market of gotta haves
> (supply and demand 101). There is no way for any company, or group of
> companies, to make all the required doses at one time. A black market will
> probably develop with inflated prices.
> > >
> > > A good portion of the rest of the world has signed an agreement to
> share any vaccines, and not hoard them. The US won’t sign up to that
> agreement. If we won’t share with them, will they be willing to share with
> us if we don’t have enough?
> > >
> > > We have a history of releasing medications proven to be safe, only to
> find the producers being sued later because of side effects that developed.
> If you watch any amount of TV you’ve seen some of the drug commercials that
> list several side effects from using their proven drug, sometimes it’s the
> same condition that you’re taking the drug for, which doesn’t make sense to
> me, and sometimes it’s even death.
> > >
> > > I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but rushing to get something out there
> as fast as possible, and taking shortcuts to do it, doesn’t sound good to
> me. I’d rather wait until they’re sure they’ve got something that works.
> > >
> > > The references to the movies Contagion and I Am Legend were only
> mentioned to point out how things can go bad when it comes to a virus.
> Unlike all the zombie movies, they are more realistic in their approach. I
> realize that movies can stretch the truth and may not be based on actual
> facts.
> > >
> > > In I Am Legend, a vaccine was issued to the whole world, and the side
> affects weren’t realized until everybody was vaccinated and it was too
> late.
> > >
> > > In Contagion the story was how a virus from a bat (sound familiar)
> could get transmitted to just one person, and how that one person could
> start spreading the virus around the world through ordinary people that
> started to interact with each other.
> > >
> > > Again, I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but until the scientific
> community can get all the answers, we need to take as many safety steps as
> we can so that we don’t become a statistic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Henry Miller < hank at millerfarm.com>
> > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
> > >
> > > Carl, there are too many unknowns to make such definite statements.
> There are a dozen or more different vaccines in the works, each working
> differently. Typically about 10% are expected to make it through
> development to be given to humans. Since each works differently we cannot
> say how they will work.  Maybe it will be like smallpox where it is gone
> expect for a few labs and nobody even thinks about it. Maybe it will be
> like measles and almost gone, but just enough unvaccinated remain that it
> keeps coming back. Maybe it will be like tetanus where you need regular
> boosters. Maybe no vaccine will turn out to work. We don't know.
> > >
> > > As for antibodies, again we don't know. A few people have got
> Corvid-19 twice but we aren't sure if it is really twice vs it wasn't
> fraught off completely and we detect it again. Antibodies fading with time
> might or might not mean that the body isn't immune after that, as the body
> sometimes (only sometimes) can ramp up antibodies if needed. And vaccines
> might create different antibodies that last longer. Maybe, again there is
> much we don't know.
> > >
> > > You need a flu shit yearly because the flu mutates so fast. Covid
> doesn't mutate as fast (not to be confused with doesn't mutate) so there is
> a better chance if we get a working vaccine to everyone it will stop all
> strains. But again it is about chance. Of course knowledge of how to make a
> working vaccine probably generalizes to making one for the mutations much
> faster (which is why we have a yearly flu shot instead of years of
> development for each)
> > >
> > > Cost isn't clear either. Most will probably be cheap because there is
> more money in a $10 shot everyone can afford so 100 million people buy it
> than a million dollar vaccine that only a handful of people can afford. A
> lot of the research costs are being subsidized (by several different
> countries) on condition of a cheap vaccine if it works.
> > >
> > > As for movies, I don't comment on fiction. It can be fun but it isn't
> evidence of any truth.
> > >
> > > Again, there are too many unknowns for those confident statements you
> made.
> > >
> > > I really need to burn this soapbox, but I'm sure someone else will get
> me to jump on it soon.
> > >
> > > --
> > >   Henry Miller
> > >    hank at millerfarm.com
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, at 08:34, szabelski at wildblue.net wrote:
> > > > It will never really be over. The virus is here and it will be here
> > > > forever, it will not disappear. Just like small pox, measles, polio,
> > > > etc., the viruses exist in or environment and will always be here.
> We
> > > > say we have eradicated them, but in reality, we have only created
> > > > vaccines that protect us from them, we have not eradicated them. The
> > > > same with the flu, it comes back every year, sometimes it changes
> and
> > > > the current vaccines don’t protect us, so we have to get a newer
> > > > vaccine shot.
> > > >
> > > > The issue with COVID is that the planned vaccines will only create
> > > > anti-bodies to fight the virus. However, studies show that the
> > > > anti-bodies will only last about three to four months. That would
> > > > indicate that you would need a booster shot every three to four
> months.
> > > > At an anticipated cost of $2,000 per shot, a family of four will
> have
> > > > to spend $24,000 to $32,000 a year on shots. Will the insurance
> > > > companies pay for all this? There have been some people who made it
> > > > through the virus once, had anti-bodies, and then got the virus
> again
> > > > few months later.
> > > >
> > > > A true vaccine is needed in order to put this issue to bed, and
> > > > hopefully the current strain of the virus doesn’t evolve and change
> > > > like the current flu strains do. Another issue is that we are fast
> > > > tracking the vaccines and won’t know the side affects for some time.
> I
> > > > would hate to find out that we are all vaccinated and protected
> against
> > > > COVID, but then we all develop heart, liver, kidney, or lung issues
> at
> > > > a later date.
> > > >
> > > > There are two movies that come to mind in this time. One is
> “Contagine”
> > > > (spelling?) that follows a world wide pandemic from start to finish,
> > > > only in reverse order. The other is “I AM LEGEND” that shows what
> > > > happens when everybody is vaccinated with a vaccine to protect
> against
> > > > cancer, and then the world population experience a side affect that
> > > > basically turns them into a population that can’t tolerate sunlight
> and
> > > > becomes somewhat sub-human.
> > > >
> > > > Our life styles are going to change because of COVID and we are
> going
> > > > to have to adapt. Will we have to wear masks for the rest of our
> lives?
> > > > Will the hand shake go the way of the dinosaur? Will weddings an
> other
> > > > gathering have to be held in certified environmentally controlled
> > > > facilities? Only time will tell, and I personally don’t think it
> will
> > > > be soon. At the beginning COVID was reported to only affecting the
> old
> > > > and sick, not the younger population.Then it started to show up in
> the
> > > > younger population. Now it’s showing up in children. While the
> younger
> > > > population and children may not be affected as bad and aren’t dying
> by
> > > > the hundreds, they can still spread the virus. As long as the virus
> can
> > > > be spread there will always be someone who contracts it and
> > > > unfortunately dies.
> > > >
> > > > My wife and I wear masks, and avoid going anywhere unless it is
> > > > necessary. We still work with the local food pantry, but have
> changed
> > > > how we distribute the food. We don’t go to church on Sundays any
> more.
> > > > We aren’t boarding up the windows and doors, but we don’t do
> anything
> > > > that we don’t really have to do. We aren’t going to take any chances
> > > > that we don’t have to since the scientific community is still
> learning
> > > > more and more about this virus and they don’t have all the answers
> > > > figured out yet.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry if this is long winded. Stay safe.
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: ustonThomas Mehrkam < tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
> > > > To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <
> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
> > > >
> > > >  I cannot understand the Mask Issue.  Yes it is a P.I.A. to wear a
> mask
> > > > but that is the only way we can get out now a days with a little
> > > > safety. I am living in a Rural area and there have been quite a
> number
> > > > that refuse to wear masks.  It has gotten a little better the last
> few
> > > > weeks.  Businesses can be fined for not enforcing masks inside their
> > > > businesses.  That has helped a bunch but you still see a few
> holdouts.
> > > > Sorry about your friend. We have had some family members with
> Covid-19
> > > > but they did not have much of a problem with it and have recovered.
> > > > Will this ever be over.  I want to make an RV trip to Alaska.
> > > > Hopefully. I will be able to do that in the next couple of years. I
> > > > would like to Experience Alaska in the Summer instead of the dead of
> > > > winter working on Seismic Equipment.   That was interesting but ICE
> is
> > > > not my thing.  I was born in Texas and it is too darn cold up there
> in
> > > > the winter.
> > > > Stay safe.
> > > > Tom Mehrkam social distancing on 50 acres just outside Waller Tx.
> > > >     On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 12:57:26 AM CDT, Mattias Kessén
> > > > < davidbrown950 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  I have of course never met Raymond but I sympathize with your loss,
> > > > you, of course the family and all other that knew him. These are
> > > > terrible and strange times.
> > > >
> > > > Med vänlig hälsning
> > > > Mattias Kessén
> > > > Hässelstad Solhöjden 2594 93 Gamleby
> > > > 070-523 59 00
> > > >
> > > > Den tis 4 aug. 2020 kl 07:14 skrev Spencer Yost <
> spencer at rdfarms.com>:
> > > >
> > > > It hit home.
> > > >
> > > > I say this with a heavy heart, as many of you attending Portland may
> > > > have met him. While at Portland I introduced a few of you to a
> fellow
> > > > named Raymond Craft.  He was part of the the local home town
> Pfafftown
> > > > contingency that attended the Tri-State show. He attended the
> Portland
> > > > show along with Bill Gannoway most years and a few others.  We were
> all
> > > > good friends and neighbors and were part of the local Rust And Dust
> > > > club that sponsored the the local tractor show many of you attended.
> > > >
> > > > Raymond died of COVID-19 about 10 days ago. He was one of those
> “masks
> > > > are for pussies“ kind of guys. I wonder if his three daughters,
> three
> > > > grandkids and wife are thinking the same thing these days.
> > > >
> > > > I saw him and spoke with him(thank God with a mask on) at a funeral
> > > > about 15 days before he died.  I miss him already as he was a
> stand-up
> > > > guy.  He was also your go-to-guy for Farmall “H” tractors.   I’ll
> bet
> > > > his estate now owns about 15-20 of them.
> > > >
> > > > I hope all y’all are being careful. Sorry to vent but he leaves a
> hole
> > > > in my heart.  I’ll miss seeing him at the local breakfast diner and
> > > > talking tractors.
> > > >
> > > > Spencer
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
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