[AT] Covid-19

Thu Aug 6 04:37:30 PDT 2020

Well said Al.  The same thought crossed my mind.

JV

> This is one of the few places I can go on the www and not hear about the
> $&%# China flu, and now this thread.... :/
>
> Al
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:15 PM, Carl Baker or Kim Lessor
>> <hodor at warmrock.net> wrote:
>>
>> ï»¿
>> Mercola might be saying something reasonable (or that sounds reasonable)
>>  but he's objectively a quack.
>>
>> https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/tag/joe-mercola/
>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:39 PM Thomas Martin <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>> "Sounds"? If Americans spent less time pontificating about their
>>> "presumed" knowledge
>>>
>>> about masks and more time wearing them, some progress might be made.
>>>
>>> That the wearing masks has become so politicized, thousands of people
>>> have died needlessly.
>>>
>>> It wasn't until the wearing of masks became the norm in the 1918-20 flu
>>> pandemic, that progress was made.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 06 August 2020 at 00:48 Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This article from Dr Mercola's site sounds correct to me, although it
>>>> might be easily mis-interpreted.  It seems to stress that masks cannot
>>>> PREVENT transmission via AEROSOLS.  That is factually correct.  But
>>>> that absolutely does NOT mean masks are completely useless.  As I
>>>> stated elsewhere, it's a statistics game.  You can't prevent, but you
>>>> can change the odds in your favor.  And aerosols are a less
>>>> significant form of transmission.  Masks do help with the more
>>>> significant form of transmission, droplets.
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:21 PM guyiii guyiii < guyiii at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Just in case anyone is willing to actually engage with science instead
>>>> of the-sky-is-falling rhetoric pushed by the leftist media:
>>>>
>>>> https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/29/do-masks-help-with-coronavirus.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200729Z1&mid=DM607301&rid=927597377&fbclid=IwAR16cnLI6cfIMYau2O7nfMo2IKq7ao_pQqDUyHfN3PB9jgew26C5YlRhyBo
>>>>
>>>> -Guy-
>>>>
>>>> > On August 4, 2020 at 4:51 PM Thomas Martin < tmartin at xtra.co.nz>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "Again, I donâ€™t mean to be an alarmist, but until the scientific
>>>> community can get all the answers, we need to take as many safety
>>>> steps as we can so that we donâ€™t become a statistic.
>>>> > "
>>>> > News out of the US is that those safety steps have been resisted by
>>>> too many, from the top down.
>>>> >
>>>> > Coming from a country (NZ)that bit the bullet early, those steps do
>>>> work!
>>>> > We now have cases in isolation, only from returning citizens, the
>>>> country is
>>>> > 99% back to normality.
>>>> >
>>>> > Tom
>>>> >
>>>> > > On 05 August 2020 at 07:05 szabelski at wildblue.net wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I agree that there are too many unknowns, thatâ€™s why you have to
>>>> error on the side of caution. However, 1,000,000 doses of vaccine
>>>> that cost $2,000,000,000 relates to $2,000 per dose, and that
>>>> would only be enough for roughly 1/3 of the US population. Who
>>>> decides who gets it, and who doesnâ€™t.  The people developing the
>>>> vaccines still have to cover the cost of all the research, which
>>>> will probably be more than what the government is funding them.
>>>> Also keep in mind that we are not talking about producing vaccines
>>>> for the US only, the whole world needs it, and you know that greed
>>>> will drive prices up, especially when thereâ€™s a huge market of
>>>> gotta haves (supply and demand 101). There is no way for any
>>>> company, or group of companies, to make all the required doses at
>>>> one time. A black market will probably develop with inflated
>>>> prices.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > A good portion of the rest of the world has signed an agreement to
>>>> share any vaccines, and not hoard them. The US wonâ€™t sign up to
>>>> that agreement. If we wonâ€™t share with them, will they be
>>>> willing to share with us if we donâ€™t have enough?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We have a history of releasing medications proven to be safe, only
>>>> to find the producers being sued later because of side effects
>>>> that developed. If you watch any amount of TV youâ€™ve seen some
>>>> of the drug commercials that list several side effects from using
>>>> their proven drug, sometimes itâ€™s the same condition that
>>>> youâ€™re taking the drug for, which doesnâ€™t make sense to me,
>>>> and sometimes itâ€™s even death.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I donâ€™t mean to be an alarmist, but rushing to get something out
>>>> there as fast as possible, and taking shortcuts to do it,
>>>> doesnâ€™t sound good to me. Iâ€™d rather wait until theyâ€™re sure
>>>> theyâ€™ve got something that works.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The references to the movies Contagion and I Am Legend were only
>>>> mentioned to point out how things can go bad when it comes to a
>>>> virus. Unlike all the zombie movies, they are more realistic in
>>>> their approach. I realize that movies can stretch the truth and
>>>> may not be based on actual facts.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In I Am Legend, a vaccine was issued to the whole world, and the
>>>> side affects werenâ€™t realized until everybody was vaccinated and
>>>> it was too late.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In Contagion the story was how a virus from a bat (sound familiar)
>>>> could get transmitted to just one person, and how that one person
>>>> could start spreading the virus around the world through ordinary
>>>> people that started to interact with each other.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Again, I donâ€™t mean to be an alarmist, but until the scientific
>>>> community can get all the answers, we need to take as many safety
>>>> steps as we can so that we donâ€™t become a statistic.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Carl
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: Henry Miller < hank at millerfarm.com>
>>>> > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>> > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Carl, there are too many unknowns to make such definite
>>>> statements. There are a dozen or more different vaccines in the
>>>> works, each working differently. Typically about 10% are expected
>>>> to make it through development to be given to humans. Since each
>>>> works differently we cannot say how they will work.  Maybe it will
>>>> be like smallpox where it is gone expect for a few labs and nobody
>>>> even thinks about it. Maybe it will be like measles and almost
>>>> gone, but just enough unvaccinated remain that it keeps coming
>>>> back. Maybe it will be like tetanus where you need regular
>>>> boosters. Maybe no vaccine will turn out to work. We don't know.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As for antibodies, again we don't know. A few people have got
>>>> Corvid-19 twice but we aren't sure if it is really twice vs it
>>>> wasn't fraught off completely and we detect it again. Antibodies
>>>> fading with time might or might not mean that the body isn't
>>>> immune after that, as the body sometimes (only sometimes) can ramp
>>>> up antibodies if needed. And vaccines might create different
>>>> antibodies that last longer. Maybe, again there is much we don't
>>>> know.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > You need a flu shit yearly because the flu mutates so fast. Covid
>>>> doesn't mutate as fast (not to be confused with doesn't mutate) so
>>>> there is a better chance if we get a working vaccine to everyone
>>>> it will stop all strains. But again it is about chance. Of course
>>>> knowledge of how to make a working vaccine probably generalizes to
>>>> making one for the mutations much faster (which is why we have a
>>>> yearly flu shot instead of years of development for each)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Cost isn't clear either. Most will probably be cheap because there
>>>> is more money in a $10 shot everyone can afford so 100 million
>>>> people buy it than a million dollar vaccine that only a handful of
>>>> people can afford. A lot of the research costs are being
>>>> subsidized (by several different countries) on condition of a
>>>> cheap vaccine if it works.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As for movies, I don't comment on fiction. It can be fun but it
>>>> isn't evidence of any truth.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Again, there are too many unknowns for those confident statements
>>>> you made.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I really need to burn this soapbox, but I'm sure someone else will
>>>> get me to jump on it soon.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > >   Henry Miller
>>>> > >    hank at millerfarm.com
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, at 08:34, szabelski at wildblue.net wrote:
>>>> > > > It will never really be over. The virus is here and it will be
>>>> here
>>>> > > > forever, it will not disappear. Just like small pox, measles,
>>>> polio,
>>>> > > > etc., the viruses exist in or environment and will always be
>>>> here. We
>>>> > > > say we have eradicated them, but in reality, we have only
>>>> created
>>>> > > > vaccines that protect us from them, we have not eradicated them.
>>>> The
>>>> > > > same with the flu, it comes back every year, sometimes it
>>>> changes and
>>>> > > > the current vaccines donâ€™t protect us, so we have to get a
>>>> newer
>>>> > > > vaccine shot.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > The issue with COVID is that the planned vaccines will only
>>>> create
>>>> > > > anti-bodies to fight the virus. However, studies show that the
>>>> > > > anti-bodies will only last about three to four months. That
>>>> would
>>>> > > > indicate that you would need a booster shot every three to four
>>>> months.
>>>> > > > At an anticipated cost of $2,000 per shot, a family of four will
>>>> have
>>>> > > > to spend $24,000 to $32,000 a year on shots. Will the insurance
>>>> > > > companies pay for all this? There have been some people who made
>>>> it
>>>> > > > through the virus once, had anti-bodies, and then got the virus
>>>> again
>>>> > > > few months later.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > A true vaccine is needed in order to put this issue to bed, and
>>>> > > > hopefully the current strain of the virus doesnâ€™t evolve and
>>>> change
>>>> > > > like the current flu strains do. Another issue is that we are
>>>> fast
>>>> > > > tracking the vaccines and wonâ€™t know the side affects for some
>>>> time. I
>>>> > > > would hate to find out that we are all vaccinated and protected
>>>> against
>>>> > > > COVID, but then we all develop heart, liver, kidney, or lung
>>>> issues at
>>>> > > > a later date.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > There are two movies that come to mind in this time. One is
>>>> â€œContagineâ€
>>>> > > > (spelling?) that follows a world wide pandemic from start to
>>>> finish,
>>>> > > > only in reverse order. The other is â€œI AM LEGENDâ€ that shows
>>>> what
>>>> > > > happens when everybody is vaccinated with a vaccine to protect
>>>> against
>>>> > > > cancer, and then the world population experience a side affect
>>>> that
>>>> > > > basically turns them into a population that canâ€™t tolerate
>>>> sunlight and
>>>> > > > becomes somewhat sub-human.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Our life styles are going to change because of COVID and we are
>>>> going
>>>> > > > to have to adapt. Will we have to wear masks for the rest of our
>>>> lives?
>>>> > > > Will the hand shake go the way of the dinosaur? Will weddings an
>>>> other
>>>> > > > gathering have to be held in certified environmentally
>>>> controlled
>>>> > > > facilities? Only time will tell, and I personally donâ€™t think
>>>> it will
>>>> > > > be soon. At the beginning COVID was reported to only affecting
>>>> the old
>>>> > > > and sick, not the younger population.Then it started to show up
>>>> in the
>>>> > > > younger population. Now itâ€™s showing up in children. While the
>>>> younger
>>>> > > > population and children may not be affected as bad and arenâ€™t
>>>> dying by
>>>> > > > the hundreds, they can still spread the virus. As long as the
>>>> virus can
>>>> > > > be spread there will always be someone who contracts it and
>>>> > > > unfortunately dies.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > My wife and I wear masks, and avoid going anywhere unless it is
>>>> > > > necessary. We still work with the local food pantry, but have
>>>> changed
>>>> > > > how we distribute the food. We donâ€™t go to church on Sundays
>>>> any more.
>>>> > > > We arenâ€™t boarding up the windows and doors, but we donâ€™t do
>>>> anything
>>>> > > > that we donâ€™t really have to do. We arenâ€™t going to take any
>>>> chances
>>>> > > > that we donâ€™t have to since the scientific community is still
>>>> learning
>>>> > > > more and more about this virus and they donâ€™t have all the
>>>> answers
>>>> > > > figured out yet.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Sorry if this is long winded. Stay safe.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Carl
>>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > > From: ustonThomas Mehrkam < tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> > > > To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <
>>>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> > > > Sent: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Covid-19
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >  I cannot understand the Mask Issue.  Yes it is a P.I.A. to wear
>>>> a mask
>>>> > > > but that is the only way we can get out now a days with a little
>>>> > > > safety. I am living in a Rural area and there have been quite a
>>>> number
>>>> > > > that refuse to wear masks.  It has gotten a little better the
>>>> last few
>>>> > > > weeks.  Businesses can be fined for not enforcing masks inside
>>>> their
>>>> > > > businesses.  That has helped a bunch but you still see a few
>>>> holdouts.
>>>> > > > Sorry about your friend. We have had some family members with
>>>> Covid-19
>>>> > > > but they did not have much of a problem with it and have
>>>> recovered.
>>>> > > > Will this ever be over.  I want to make an RV trip to Alaska.
>>>> > > > Hopefully. I will be able to do that in the next couple of
>>>> years. I
>>>> > > > would like to Experience Alaska in the Summer instead of the
>>>> dead of
>>>> > > > winter working on Seismic Equipment.   That was interesting but
>>>> ICE is
>>>> > > > not my thing.  I was born in Texas and it is too darn cold up
>>>> there in
>>>> > > > the winter.
>>>> > > > Stay safe.
>>>> > > > Tom Mehrkam social distancing on 50 acres just outside Waller
>>>> Tx.
>>>> > > >     On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 12:57:26 AM CDT, Mattias KessÃ©n
>>>> > > > < davidbrown950 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >  I have of course never met Raymond but I sympathize with your
>>>> loss,
>>>> > > > you, of course the family and all other that knew him. These are
>>>> > > > terrible and strange times.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Med vÃ¤nlig hÃ¤lsning
>>>> > > > Mattias KessÃ©n
>>>> > > > HÃ¤sselstad SolhÃ¶jden 2594 93 Gamleby
>>>> > > > 070-523 59 00
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Den tis 4 aug. 2020 kl 07:14 skrev Spencer Yost <
>>>> spencer at rdfarms.com>:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > It hit home.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I say this with a heavy heart, as many of you attending Portland
>>>> may
>>>> > > > have met him. While at Portland I introduced a few of you to a
>>>> fellow
>>>> > > > named Raymond Craft.  He was part of the the local home town
>>>> Pfafftown
>>>> > > > contingency that attended the Tri-State show. He attended the
>>>> Portland
>>>> > > > show along with Bill Gannoway most years and a few others.  We
>>>> were all
>>>> > > > good friends and neighbors and were part of the local Rust And
>>>> Dust
>>>> > > > club that sponsored the the local tractor show many of you
>>>> attended.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Raymond died of COVID-19 about 10 days ago. He was one of those
>>>> â€œmasks
>>>> > > > are for pussiesâ€œ kind of guys. I wonder if his three
>>>> daughters, three
>>>> > > > grandkids and wife are thinking the same thing these days.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I saw him and spoke with him(thank God with a mask on) at a
>>>> funeral
>>>> > > > about 15 days before he died.  I miss him already as he was a
>>>> stand-up
>>>> > > > guy.  He was also your go-to-guy for Farmall â€œHâ€ tractors.
>>>> Iâ€™ll bet
>>>> > > > his estate now owns about 15-20 of them.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I hope all yâ€™all are being careful. Sorry to vent but he
>>>> leaves a hole
>>>> > > > in my heart.  Iâ€™ll miss seeing him at the local breakfast
>>>> diner and
>>>> > > > talking tractors.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Spencer
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > > > AT at lists.antique-tractor.com
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>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > > >
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>>>> > > >
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I'm very happy working at home ;-)