[AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day

Wed Nov 13 08:59:46 PST 2019

 Allis had one foot in the grave before Deutz signed on.

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 8:37 AM Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:

> Sounds like the Deutz-Allis screwup.   Allis Chalmers was into a lot
> more than farm equipment, and built very reliable products. Deutz ruined
> it...
> Cecil
>
> On 11/13/2019 6:51 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
> > I should add: Long timers on the list will recall that Homer Donagher
> > of Linton, Indiana was VP of Foreign Sales for Oliver at the time of
> > the White acquisition. Homer was of the opinion that Oliver should
> > have been buying White, instead of the other way around.
> >
> > He was forced into retirement at age 60 and the had a 12+ year career
> > as a teacher (which is how I knew him) and school principal.
> >
> > I think he holds the record for 'number of times retired' as he more
> > or less formally retired at least 4 times that I know of.
> >
> > Mark J
> >
> > On 11/13/2019 6:40 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
> >> White Motor bought out Oliver sometime in the early 1960s.
> >>
> >> Mark J
> >>
> >> On 11/12/2019 12:10 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> >>> Did White Motor Corp own both Oliver and Moline from the start, or
> >>> did White take them over later. IMHO, Moline, while a dependable
> >>> tractor, was the most difficult tractor to ever work on.  Extra
> >>> bolts, special bolts, such as Torx headed bolts recessed in from the
> >>> back side of a flange, just very awkward to work on and work with. I
> >>> had a 5 star and a G1000, and grew up with an R, Z, and a U series.
> >>> Big awkward heavy tractors as opposed to Oliver that were big,
> >>> heavy, but fairly easy to operate, and easy to work on.   Dad & I
> >>> installed a clutch in the 1950 in a day without splitting the
> >>> tractor.  We didn't even move the radiator.  Pulled the engine and
> >>> then set it crossways over the big cast iron belly frame and pulled
> >>> the 2 speed off the engine and changed the clutch.  I hope to get
> >>> the 1850 running again.   It was a good baler tractor before we got
> >>> a cab tractor.
> >>> Cecil
> >>>
> >>> On 11/12/2019 11:40 AM, deanvp at att.net wrote:
> >>>> James,
> >>>>
> >>>> I really don't know. I haven't researched that. But there is a
> >>>> possibility that it might have diverted financial resources that
> >>>> could have been better used in the Agricultural market.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dean VP
> >>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of James
> >>>> Peck
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:15 AM
> >>>> To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> >>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>>> Subject: [AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day
> >>>>
> >>>> Did the acquisition of Cletrac help or hurt?
> >>>>
> >>>> Dean VP AT List Member <deanvp at att.net>; IMHO, Oliver could have
> >>>> owned the tractor market given they had to financial resources to
> >>>> make the marketing push. In my home county there was only one
> >>>> Oliver dealer whereas John Deere and I/H had a dealer in every town
> >>>> over 2,000 population. The Oliver's in the field were clustered
> >>>> around that one dealer. Dealer support was probably more important
> >>>> to the farmers than the actual tractor.  Oliver was a leader in
> >>>> many innovations that JD and I/H followed with more marketing
> >>>> muscle. I know there was a kind of under the table relationship
> >>>> between JD and Oliver since Waterloo and Charles City were not that
> >>>> far apart geographically. I suspect there was quite a bit of
> >>>> industrial espionage that occurred in the local bars, homes and
> >>>> churches. But…. Oliver was a technology leader. I don’t know how
> >>>> much the fact that the engines were not Oliver designed would have
> >>>> limited them.  But they just didn’t have the financial resources to
> >>>> compete after JD announced the New Generation tractors.  How that
> >>>> development was kept secret in the for several years is somewhat of
> >>>> a feat all by itself. The decision to develop the NG tractors was
> >>>> made in 1953. An expected 5 year development program. But it wasn’t
> >>>> quite ready in 1958 so there was a two year delay in the
> >>>> announcement of the NG tractors.  Had there not been the delay the
> >>>> 30 series two cylinder JD tractors would never have existed.
> >>>> Strangely JD became the largest producer of Agricultural tractors
> >>>> in the US in 1958 overcoming I/H largely due to the x60 series
> >>>> tractor fiasco.  I/h owned the tractor market and snatched defeat
> >>>> from the jaws of victory.  I/H management’s bad decisions
> >>>> overwhelmed a good product line. In the time period between 1950
> >>>> and 1955 I/H owned on average roughly 31% of the tractor market.
> >>>> JD’s market share during that same period averaged only 14%.   It
> >>>> just proves that poor management can always overcome good products.
> >>>> . Here is a chart of the overall tractor market. The market fell
> >>>> apart after 1951. The void after WWII had been filled.
> >>>>
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