[AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day

[Cecil Bearden]

Sounds like the Deutz-Allis screwup.   Allis Chalmers was into a lot 
more than farm equipment, and built very reliable products. Deutz ruined 
it...
Cecil

On 11/13/2019 6:51 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
> I should add: Long timers on the list will recall that Homer Donagher 
> of Linton, Indiana was VP of Foreign Sales for Oliver at the time of 
> the White acquisition. Homer was of the opinion that Oliver should 
> have been buying White, instead of the other way around.
>
> He was forced into retirement at age 60 and the had a 12+ year career 
> as a teacher (which is how I knew him) and school principal.
>
> I think he holds the record for 'number of times retired' as he more 
> or less formally retired at least 4 times that I know of.
>
> Mark J
>
> On 11/13/2019 6:40 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
>> White Motor bought out Oliver sometime in the early 1960s.
>>
>> Mark J
>>
>> On 11/12/2019 12:10 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>> Did White Motor Corp own both Oliver and Moline from the start, or 
>>> did White take them over later. IMHO, Moline, while a dependable 
>>> tractor, was the most difficult tractor to ever work on.  Extra 
>>> bolts, special bolts, such as Torx headed bolts recessed in from the 
>>> back side of a flange, just very awkward to work on and work with. I 
>>> had a 5 star and a G1000, and grew up with an R, Z, and a U series.  
>>> Big awkward heavy tractors as opposed to Oliver that were big, 
>>> heavy, but fairly easy to operate, and easy to work on.   Dad & I 
>>> installed a clutch in the 1950 in a day without splitting the 
>>> tractor.  We didn't even move the radiator.  Pulled the engine and 
>>> then set it crossways over the big cast iron belly frame and pulled 
>>> the 2 speed off the engine and changed the clutch.  I hope to get 
>>> the 1850 running again.   It was a good baler tractor before we got 
>>> a cab tractor.
>>> Cecil
>>>
>>> On 11/12/2019 11:40 AM, deanvp at att.net wrote:
>>>> James,
>>>>
>>>> I really don't know. I haven't researched that. But there is a 
>>>> possibility that it might have diverted financial resources that 
>>>> could have been better used in the Agricultural market.
>>>>
>>>> Dean VP
>>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of James 
>>>> Peck
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:15 AM
>>>> To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group 
>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Subject: [AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day
>>>>
>>>> Did the acquisition of Cletrac help or hurt?
>>>>
>>>> Dean VP AT List Member <deanvp at att.net>; IMHO, Oliver could have 
>>>> owned the tractor market given they had to financial resources to 
>>>> make the marketing push. In my home county there was only one 
>>>> Oliver dealer whereas John Deere and I/H had a dealer in every town 
>>>> over 2,000 population. The Oliver's in the field were clustered 
>>>> around that one dealer. Dealer support was probably more important 
>>>> to the farmers than the actual tractor.  Oliver was a leader in 
>>>> many innovations that JD and I/H followed with more marketing 
>>>> muscle. I know there was a kind of under the table relationship 
>>>> between JD and Oliver since Waterloo and Charles City were not that 
>>>> far apart geographically. I suspect there was quite a bit of 
>>>> industrial espionage that occurred in the local bars, homes and 
>>>> churches. But…. Oliver was a technology leader. I don’t know how 
>>>> much the fact that the engines were not Oliver designed would have 
>>>> limited them.  But they just didn’t have the financial resources to 
>>>> compete after JD announced the New Generation tractors.  How that 
>>>> development was kept secret in the for several years is somewhat of 
>>>> a feat all by itself. The decision to develop the NG tractors was 
>>>> made in 1953. An expected 5 year development program. But it wasn’t 
>>>> quite ready in 1958 so there was a two year delay in the 
>>>> announcement of the NG tractors.  Had there not been the delay the 
>>>> 30 series two cylinder JD tractors would never have existed. 
>>>> Strangely JD became the largest producer of Agricultural tractors 
>>>> in the US in 1958 overcoming I/H largely due to the x60 series 
>>>> tractor fiasco.  I/h owned the tractor market and snatched defeat 
>>>> from the jaws of victory.  I/H management’s bad decisions 
>>>> overwhelmed a good product line. In the time period between 1950 
>>>> and 1955 I/H owned on average roughly 31% of the tractor market. 
>>>> JD’s market share during that same period averaged only 14%.   It 
>>>> just proves that poor management can always overcome good products. 
>>>> . Here is a chart of the overall tractor market. The market fell 
>>>> apart after 1951. The void after WWII had been filled.
>>>>
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