<div dir="auto"> Allis had one foot in the grave before Deutz signed on.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 8:37 AM Cecil Bearden <<a href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net">crbearden@copper.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sounds like the Deutz-Allis screwup. Allis Chalmers was into a lot <br>
more than farm equipment, and built very reliable products. Deutz ruined <br>
it...<br>
Cecil<br>
<br>
On 11/13/2019 6:51 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:<br>
> I should add: Long timers on the list will recall that Homer Donagher <br>
> of Linton, Indiana was VP of Foreign Sales for Oliver at the time of <br>
> the White acquisition. Homer was of the opinion that Oliver should <br>
> have been buying White, instead of the other way around.<br>
><br>
> He was forced into retirement at age 60 and the had a 12+ year career <br>
> as a teacher (which is how I knew him) and school principal.<br>
><br>
> I think he holds the record for 'number of times retired' as he more <br>
> or less formally retired at least 4 times that I know of.<br>
><br>
> Mark J<br>
><br>
> On 11/13/2019 6:40 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:<br>
>> White Motor bought out Oliver sometime in the early 1960s.<br>
>><br>
>> Mark J<br>
>><br>
>> On 11/12/2019 12:10 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:<br>
>>> Did White Motor Corp own both Oliver and Moline from the start, or <br>
>>> did White take them over later. IMHO, Moline, while a dependable <br>
>>> tractor, was the most difficult tractor to ever work on. Extra <br>
>>> bolts, special bolts, such as Torx headed bolts recessed in from the <br>
>>> back side of a flange, just very awkward to work on and work with. I <br>
>>> had a 5 star and a G1000, and grew up with an R, Z, and a U series. <br>
>>> Big awkward heavy tractors as opposed to Oliver that were big, <br>
>>> heavy, but fairly easy to operate, and easy to work on. Dad & I <br>
>>> installed a clutch in the 1950 in a day without splitting the <br>
>>> tractor. We didn't even move the radiator. Pulled the engine and <br>
>>> then set it crossways over the big cast iron belly frame and pulled <br>
>>> the 2 speed off the engine and changed the clutch. I hope to get <br>
>>> the 1850 running again. It was a good baler tractor before we got <br>
>>> a cab tractor.<br>
>>> Cecil<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 11/12/2019 11:40 AM, <a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">deanvp@att.net</a> wrote:<br>
>>>> James,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I really don't know. I haven't researched that. But there is a <br>
>>>> possibility that it might have diverted financial resources that <br>
>>>> could have been better used in the Agricultural market.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Dean VP<br>
>>>> Snohomish, WA 98290<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>> From: AT <<a href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>> On Behalf Of James <br>
>>>> Peck<br>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:15 AM<br>
>>>> To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
>>>> Subject: [AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Did the acquisition of Cletrac help or hurt?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Dean VP AT List Member <<a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">deanvp@att.net</a>>; IMHO, Oliver could have <br>
>>>> owned the tractor market given they had to financial resources to <br>
>>>> make the marketing push. In my home county there was only one <br>
>>>> Oliver dealer whereas John Deere and I/H had a dealer in every town <br>
>>>> over 2,000 population. The Oliver's in the field were clustered <br>
>>>> around that one dealer. Dealer support was probably more important <br>
>>>> to the farmers than the actual tractor. Oliver was a leader in <br>
>>>> many innovations that JD and I/H followed with more marketing <br>
>>>> muscle. I know there was a kind of under the table relationship <br>
>>>> between JD and Oliver since Waterloo and Charles City were not that <br>
>>>> far apart geographically. I suspect there was quite a bit of <br>
>>>> industrial espionage that occurred in the local bars, homes and <br>
>>>> churches. But…. Oliver was a technology leader. I don’t know how <br>
>>>> much the fact that the engines were not Oliver designed would have <br>
>>>> limited them. But they just didn’t have the financial resources to <br>
>>>> compete after JD announced the New Generation tractors. How that <br>
>>>> development was kept secret in the for several years is somewhat of <br>
>>>> a feat all by itself. The decision to develop the NG tractors was <br>
>>>> made in 1953. An expected 5 year development program. But it wasn’t <br>
>>>> quite ready in 1958 so there was a two year delay in the <br>
>>>> announcement of the NG tractors. Had there not been the delay the <br>
>>>> 30 series two cylinder JD tractors would never have existed. <br>
>>>> Strangely JD became the largest producer of Agricultural tractors <br>
>>>> in the US in 1958 overcoming I/H largely due to the x60 series <br>
>>>> tractor fiasco. I/h owned the tractor market and snatched defeat <br>
>>>> from the jaws of victory. I/H management’s bad decisions <br>
>>>> overwhelmed a good product line. In the time period between 1950 <br>
>>>> and 1955 I/H owned on average roughly 31% of the tractor market. <br>
>>>> JD’s market share during that same period averaged only 14%. It <br>
>>>> just proves that poor management can always overcome good products. <br>
>>>> . Here is a chart of the overall tractor market. The market fell <br>
>>>> apart after 1951. The void after WWII had been filled.<br>
>>>><br>
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</blockquote></div>