[AT] OK, oddball question...

Tue Jul 16 10:28:29 PDT 2019

Jim, your memory is remarkably good!

Short answer is no, they don't have any built-in protection.  (Disclaimer:
This may not be universally true, and it may not be true in the modern day,
but that's how they worked a couple decades ago)

Fusible links and "megafuses" take care of the protection externally.

SO

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:36 PM Jim Becker <mr.jebecker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Once generator based vehicle charging systems were equipped with full
> voltage regulators, there was a built-in current regulator that (at least
> in theory) kept the maximum output within the safe working limit of the
> generator.  If the total load on the system was more than the generator
> capacity, the generator simply provided as much current as it could and the
> battery would be gradually drained because it was making up the
> difference.  The older 3-brush generators in cut-out systems were
> self-limiting on output and tended to take care of themselves, although
> probably less reliably.
>
> Steve, you have worked with internally regulated alternators and I am sure
> you know their inner workings better than I do.  But I would expect those
> alternators to have built-in current regulators that would prevent overload
> of the alternator itself.  The situation I would compare to is jumpstarting
> an engine from another vehicle with a running engine.
>
> Jim Becker
>
> *From:* Stephen Offiler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:40 AM
> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AT] OK, oddball question...
>
> The problem with trying to operate while charging (presumably, charging
> off a 36-volt alternator driven by a small engine) is that, basically, your
> alternator is supplying some/most/all of the cart's electric motor
> current.  How much depends on the batteries' state of discharge as well as
> the demands of the cart, so it's a pretty big variable.  But the problem is
> that you risk overloading the alternator.  Now if it is sized appropriately
> then you minimize or eliminate the problem.
>
> Have you ever put a tractor battery (obligatory tractor reference) on a
> small, say 10-amp charger, forget to disconnect it later, and try to start
> the tractor?  Well OK at least *I* have made that mistake.  What happens?
> Even with a pretty well-charged battery, the internal circuit breaker in
> the charger trips.  That is pretty much analagous to what I'm talking about
> above.
>
> SO
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:57 PM Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Some good stuff here... The batteries are a matched set just under 2
>> years old. None have ever been low on water or even discharged very badly
>> or sat for any length time while low on charge.  I've spent a fair amount
>> of time on cart sites but they had not discussed these particular things.
>> Stephen, I had read on one of those sites that you should never use a
>> frame ground for anything for the reason you said.
>> I don't actually have any power drawing accessory items installed on the
>> cart, not even a backup alarm. If it had one somebody took it off. I have
>> an older 3 wheel EZ-Go that we are not currently using that has one. It is
>> "in-line" for a set of batteries and a general go-through but it is low
>> priority and is so far back in line it may be in the next county...  :-)
>> One of those kind of projects... "Maybe someday if I get to it but no big
>> deal if I can't.
>> Even my horn on the Club Car isn't electric, it is an above average
>> chrome bike horn with a squeeze bulb.
>> I do have a set of lights for it but not installed yet. They are all LED
>> so low power needs. Still, I think the voltage reducer Bo mentioned is the
>> best answer for tapping 12 volts. I have considered several times
>> (especially this week  :-)  ) putting a couple of fans in the front up
>> under the roof.
>> Now, my original question was really based more on being able to extend
>> range especially if I am using more power than normal. You know, like
>> running the air conditioner...  :-)  :-)  :-)
>> My old chargers are big and heavy but I've noticed that many new cart
>> chargers are quite small (and far less expensive) than the old style. I had
>> considered a 36 volt alternator regulator like Cecil mentioned but I think
>> I might consider just charging one separate 12 volt deep cycle with the
>> built in regulator in the alternator and then using one of those small new
>> chargers powered by one of several power inverters I have. I think I would
>> get more use out of a 12 volt system for other things since most camping
>> stuff is 12 volt. Sometimes when travelling you end up some place
>> completely without power...
>> Does anybody know if it would be problematic for any reason to operate a
>> golf cart while it is charging?
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 1:41 PM Spencer Yost <spencer at rdfarms.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I second Bo’s idea....
>>>
>>> Every other idea would be a nearly as expensive or more so, add
>>> unnecessary complication and create additional work that detracts from
>>> tractor time.   I do understand that rigging something up that is original
>>> and ingenious is a badge of honor.   But I suspect this is one project that
>>> screams for a plug-n-play solution.
>>>
>>> I’d pull out some green shims($20 bills) and install the reducer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Spencer Yost
>>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 10:29 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bo, sounds like a fine idea to me.  30 amps is a pretty decent supply.
>>> Here's a direct link:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.buggiesunlimited.com/golf-cart/reliance-36v-48v-12v-power-converter-(universal-fit)/13-030
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM Bo Hinch <bohinch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If it were me , I would use a voltage reducer like below that cost
>>>> around $100.00 dollars and draws equal voltage from ALL the batteries never
>>>> making any two batteries weaker than the others . I have installed many of
>>>> them in my life time and years down the road , it pays off big time . Reliance
>>>> 36V/48V-12V Voltage Reducer/Converter (Universal Fit) on sale now from
>>>> Buggies Unlimited . Normally 174.95 , sale price is 97.95 .
>>>> Just my opinion for whatever its worth .
>>>> Bo Hinch in S/W louisiana watching Berry as its passing through
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 6:28 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi farmer:
>>>>>
>>>>> Batteries in parallel will try to equalize each other.  Yours, of
>>>>> course, are in series.  In a series string, if one battery is discharged,
>>>>> it will limit the performance of the whole string.  It will not be
>>>>> recharged by the other batteries however.  That's because you're trying to
>>>>> pull current from the whole string, and recharge requires a push in the
>>>>> other direction.  Your idea to feed recharge to the center two batteries
>>>>> will work fine *IF* you are very careful to isolate the whole thing from
>>>>> the golf cart chassis. Otherwise you'll have some unintended arc welding
>>>>> going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:45 PM Indiana Robinson <
>>>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One of my "old tractors" is IIRC about a 1996 Club Car 36 volt golf
>>>>>> cart. With chevron tires (like tractor rears) they will get around well and
>>>>>> will pull a lawn trailer about anywhere. I try to not over do it but I have
>>>>>> in a pinch pulled one of my smaller tractors a very short distance or for a
>>>>>> quick pull start.
>>>>>> It is as I said a 36 volt one using six 6 volt deep cycle batteries.
>>>>>> Now for the question... Hoping that some are better at theory etc.
>>>>>> than I am. It's been a long hot day and my brain is in granny gear and I
>>>>>> can't find what I want on-line. There are a number of golf cart accessories
>>>>>> that operate on 12 volts like the back-up alarm, radio, lights, fan etc.
>>>>>> You can pull 12 volts from any 2 adjoining batteries. I have read that you
>>>>>> shouldn't draw too hard from any one pair or they will not always recharge
>>>>>> evenly but apparently if those two do drop some power there is some
>>>>>> balancing from the other batteries. Supposedly they try to find a common
>>>>>> level with the weakest battery. (shrug)
>>>>>> What I want to know  is what would be happening if I were to connect
>>>>>> a 12 volt alternator powered by a very small gasoline engine to feed 12
>>>>>> volts to the center 2 batteries? Would it move to the other batteries some?
>>>>>> Sometimes when we are working horse fences a lot we get might get a
>>>>>> bit low on go juice when back in a back corner of the farm especially if
>>>>>> running in deep snow. Not this week.  :-)
>>>>>> I fed the question into my boiled brain and it came back "error 404,
>>>>>> page not found"...  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>>> aka "farmer"
>>>>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>>
>> Francis Robinson
>> aka "farmer"
>> Central Indiana USA
>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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