[AT] Was Old tractor question; now collection dynamics.

Fri Feb 15 08:01:08 PST 2019

Mark Johnson, great anecdotes.   Pulling that stuck 730 and corn wagon out with the H must have been a heck of project!

Dean Vinson

Saint Paris, OH

From: AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:31 AM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Subject: Re: [AT] Was Old tractor question; now collection dynamics.

Here are a few memories...

Although I now live in the city, I have a 1940 JD H (narrow front!) in my shed, awaiting when I have time to get it running and restored. Little Johnny was purchased by my grandfather, brand new, in 1941. Until he came into my hands, he was a 'working' tractor that always had a job to perform. In my younger days I used it to:

- Pull wagonloads of corn from the field to the grain bins, then unhitch from the wagon, and hook the PTO to the elevator to unload. The real fun was getting a load of corn around a sharp corner while going up a 30 degree slope, with a railroad crossing at the top. Take a good run at it in low gear, and don't try it if there was a train in sight...which could be fairly frequently, in the mid 1970's the now-abandoned Monon sometimes had 12 trains a day. 

- Rake hay. When I was 12 or so, we had the clutch set up so tight that I couldn't yank it out on one occasion; I remember my dad having to run up behind me, jump on the hitch, and pull the clutch out so I could stop.

- On one memorable occasion, all 12 HP were put to use to pull one of our 730's plus 110 bushels of corn out of a mud hole. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog, but we got it done!

Little Johnny has a dent in the hood, underneath the steering shaft, that I will not be fixing...here's the story: Sometime in the middle 1940's my dad and his brother cut down a tree, which fell the wrong way and landed on top of the tractor, 'twanging' the steering shaft and flexing it far enough to put a nice little crease in the sheet metal. The shaft didn't bend or break, and when my dad and granddad repainted the tractor in the late 1970's they didn't fix the dent - so I won't either. My dad is now gone, and his brother is approaching 90 years old and in poor health, but that dent is a family memory...

Other tractors we had back then:

- JD A with high-altitude piston kit; compression was high enough it wouldn't start when cold without opening the cylinder cocks. The hot-rod kit to increase starter torque was a flop. That year of A was rated at 38 HP, ours pulled 43 on a PTO dynamometer  with nothing more than new plugs.

- JD 620, essentially stock. Not sure what has happened to it; I have a connecting rod from its last overhaul stashed in my garage. A truly beefy piece.

- Two Diesel 730's, one with fenders and one without. I think they were built in two different years, the gearing was slightly different...the no-fenders tractor had a 5th gear that clipped along at about 7 mph at rated speed...great for driving in for lunch. Both of them could plow all day on one tank of fuel. My cousin has one of them, the other was sold. I can't remember if both came from one tractor, or one from each, but we had two cracked flywheels at 100 lbs each, sitting around the farm for many years...my cousin and I threatened to build a heavy-weight cart out of them, using the equally-beefy drive axle that was the last remaining part of great-great-uncle Jim's 1903 Cadillac. I think all those pieces got bulldozed into a hole after the arsonist burned down the barn on my grandfather's place.

- The one oddball in the fleet, my maternal grandfather's Farmall 300. We mostly used it to mow hay, left the 9W mower hooked up most of the summer. Also used it to carry a platform with fence building/repair supplies into places where a pickup couldn't go. Never a great tractor, but it always would start in the winter, and often pulled or belt-started one of the 730's. This was the tractor that suffered the short in the starter solenoid on me while I was a half-mile from the house, clipping pasture. As far as I know, the engine has never been torn down. 

- An AC 190XT - never a great tractor, engine had to be re-sleeved after it developed antifreeze leaks. 

- An AC 210 - no cab, tremendous pulling power - would pull 6 16" bottoms with ease. Big drawback...not enough radiator. If you ran it at full rated RPM in heavy Indiana clay soil, it would overheat within a couple hundred yards. I tried for 2 years to talk Pop into spending $1000 or so to have a special radiator built for it with an extra row of tubes, so it would cool. An oddity: we got it when it was about 5-6 years old, but we were the first legitimate owner. It had been stolen from a dealer lot when new, then somebody else stole it from that guy. It got back into 'circulation' when a sheriff's deputy caught the second thief and his brother trying to pull-start it on a cold morning. They didn't seem to know what they were doing, so the officer called the serial number in...and sure enough, it came back as stolen. It sat on a lot for 3 years or so while the insurance company, original dealer, and AC fought over the details. We got it for a very reasonable price, with only about 250 hours on the tach. Hadn't been abused, the guys who stole it never even pulled the seal wires off the fuel injection pump to attempt to boost output (with the aforementioned radiator, it wouldn't have helped much anyway).

- An AC 8030 - full airconditioned cab, 10-15 more HP than the 210 (same engine block, more blower). Had enough radiator to run at full power with that 6 bottom plow...and almost was enough to get me to come back to the farm when I was about 35 or so. Still on the farm, used by a neighbor who rents the tillable acreage. A/C compressor no longer holds refrigerant, so it is not pleasant to drive in high summer any more! Price of a new compressor was/is outrageous. [Tractor aircon has always been problematic...designers don't realize what a hostile mechanical environment a farm tractor can be; seals and fittings that work fine in automotive use just don't stand up in the field.]

Good times in southern Indiana...

Mark J
Columbia MO 

On 2/14/2019 5:56 AM, Henry Miller wrote:

You hit it with memories. My great uncle made his own tractors, and so my early memories are of tractor shows. I loved the big tractors and steam engines, I was knee high to a grasshopper, so they were really impressive. Still are now that I'm big. They are mostly unaffordable, but I want a 60/30 heavy oil pull. 

The first tractor I ever drove was a model titan that my great uncle built. He sold that and build a second which I now have. Turns out to be my goto tractor for fun, it starts easy and is easy to drive. You can't do much with only 3 horse power, but I don't have much to do. I've never been a farmer. 

My model John deere D is built on a 1.5 horse John deere e hit n miss. It is fun to drive, though my son (now 5) doesn't let me often. Generally I walk beside it for safety while he drives. 

My grey tractor is the last one I have that my great uncle made. In my memories it is yellow and had a now missing log splitter attached. Someday to I need to build one to get it right. This is my only tractor with electric start, something I can do without: electric start tractors were too modern to get into shows when I was a kid. (this is probably not true, but in my memory...) 

The other tractors in my memory are from my dad's side, he was a farmer at one time and still kept the tractors. He traded a Ford-Ferguson for an 8n. I remember with my cousin trying to push it to prove how strong we were (now that I'm older I wonder if taking it out of gear might have made us successful).  Until she died a couple years ago I wanted to take it with her to a show with it just to hear the announcer say "that is the original owner driving". This tractor now belongs to my uncle. 

Then grandpa bought a Ford 860, this is the tractor of my dad's memories, he has 3 when it showed up and that was very exciting for him. Now my dad has it. 

Last grandpa bought a John deere B for cheap at an auction because nobody else was bidding. My dad drove it home (5 miles or so). Now it is my big tractor as my son calls it. It is mostly used for hay rides. 

Last is a homemade lawn tractor that grandpa made from a David Bradley and model A Ford parts. It runs but the clutch needs work so it doesn't drive. This was mostly built as a pto for a grain elevator. 

I moved to Moline IL a month ago, I have a  40x60 poll barn to store this all in. However getting boxes unpacked has been using most of my limited time. The B did get put to some use getting everything to the trailer. I haven't had the energy to write anything about the move though. 

-- 

  Henry Miller

  hank at millerfarm.com <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com> 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019, at 9:39 PM, Spencer Yost wrote:

Why did you own what you have owned?  Farmer started it; as he usually does....

The preponderance of narrow front tractors a tractor shows is sort of a weird variation on self-selection bias. When people collect tractors, they tend to collect what caught  their interest when they were younger and imprinted in their memories.  So their memories are screaming “let me into the sample!“.  Those memories are reinforced by nostalgic pictures of Farmall Ms, John Deere A’s, etc.

Having lived in Pennsylvania, and seen many horses but very few tractors, I don’t  really have a bias that I can sense and explains the menagerie of tractors I have owned. 

 I bought my Farmall A because it was close, handy, and i knew of a mower i could put on it.  I bought my Pacer because i was looking for a project, it was close, from a co-worker, it was handy, and it was a good price even though it was rusted stuck. Every tractor was a weird twist of fate. I’ve inherited one(friend who passed), got a call out of the blue, you name it.  I have probably owned around 30 tractors; they have all come and gone after I got them running and made them happy(a few went to scrap when I made a mistake in assessment). They are a complete smorgasbord of anything and everything you can imagine.

I’ve settled on my Ford 861, MH Pacer and JD 430V. I’ll probably die with these.  If there is any pattern, it is obvious that I prefer tractors from the 50s.

My collection pride and joy was a complete set of the Massey Harris “equine” tractors. I had a Pony, Pacer, Colt and a Mustang. A guy came along and offered me more money than I could refuse and now they are gone. My original Pacer remains.

In addition I rebuilt the engines  of 6-8 tractors in this area around 1990-2000.  I still see a few mowing and brush-hogging from time to time. That’s  probably my greatest reward.  

A friend recently said he is about to give me his family’s Ford  8N  for engine rebuilding. Hopefully I can post on that from time to time(Don’t hold your breath: he said that a year ago too. :-) ).

Spencer Yost

On Feb 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com <mailto:robinson46176 at gmail.com> > wrote:

You are right Greg, my 4020 Deere was narrow front. Not my first choice but it was a very good buy on a very good tractor. It did have the Roll-a-matic and that did help a lot on handling and ride. It was also very heavy and thus quite stable.

For most things wide front / narrow front doesn't really matter to me I have always adapted easily, even to a #%&^ hand clutch.  :-)

My father's first tractor, a 9N Ford, bought new in early 1942, of course, an adjustable wide front. My grandfather never owned a tractor nor a car/truck, only horses.

The rebuilt McCormick 10-20, acquired during those tractor shortage post war years mentioned was a "standard tread" wheat-land style front axle. It was traded for a decent 1939 Chrysler sedan in 1951.

The Ferguson TO-20, bought new about 1949 was an adjustable wide front. 

By 1952 - 53 my older sister and I were putting in hours running tractors and my father became largely committed to low slung wide front tractors for safety reasons. About 1952 a John Deere MC crawler came to the farm and I spent a lot of time on it and later the Deere 40C crawler, bought new, that the MC was traded in on. Is a crawler a "wide front"?  :-)  Very high stability.

In very early 1954 the 9N was traded for the 1953 Ford Jubilee, of course also a wide front low slung tractor. That one had 2 clutches, one foot and one hand for live PTO.

The Deere 40C was traded for a IHC 300U, also low and wide front.

I don't actually ever recall ever even driving a tricycle front tractor until we got the Allis Chalmers C that a close family friend had bought new in 1946 and owned for 20 years. We used it a lot for stationary PTO use like elevators and augers and using the mid-mount sickle mower. I still have that tractor and it has been to a number of shows.

We stayed with ear corn longer than most, we had a Kentucky connection who would pay a premium for good ear corn for cattle feed. My father found a very good used New Idea 2 row mounted picker with mountings for a Farmall M. We found a good Farmall Super M tricycle (that I still have) to mount that picker on. I then found my Farmall Super MTA tricycle which was ideal for that picker with independent PTO and TA. (I still have that one too) It has been to Portland before.

The Farmall 400 LP bought just because we wanted it is a wide front. I still have it but it is not currently running, needs an engine rebuild.

The MM-R with a #$%^ hand clutch, is a narrow front. Still have it, bought it at an uncle's auction. It has been shown a number of times including Portland.

The 1948 John Deere A is a Roll-a-matic narrow front with a #$%^ hand clutch.

Ferguson TO-20 (not our old original) wide front. Used almost daily.

1946 Case VAC, narrow front, also in regular use.

1947 Farmall Cub and a (I forget the year) Massey Harris Pony. Both wide front but not very wide.  :-)

I almost forgot my MF-165D wide front. I have some of it apart but maybe I will get there next fall. Priorities are different when you no longer actually farm...

Oh and 2 8N Fords. One nearly done and one not started on and not really a priority.

Also a Case VAC that hasn't decided if it is a project or a parts tractor. A narrow front.

I guess That's everybody.

I guess that my biggest complaint about narrow fronts is how they can turn into virtual bulldozers in extremely soft wet soil.

Speaking of moving tractors around, I see a lot of single fronts at shows here these days but I never saw any of them growing up...

.

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 6:40 PM Greg Hass <ghass at m3isp.com <mailto:ghass at m3isp.com> > wrote:

This is a question I have wondered about for years although it is not 

world changing. The question is: why are some areas mostly wide front 

and others narrow front tractors?  In our area of Michigan, as soon as 

wide front became available almost 100% went with wide front. 

Personally, I hate narrow front tractors with a passion. I would never 

get a narrow front tractor except maybe an old 2 cylinder JD or 

something like a Farmall F-12 where wide front either did not exist or 

is extremely rare. I know that in some areas the larger tractors had 

narrow front because of mounted corn pickers. From videos other areas 

had narrow fronts. If you Google  ( tractors from the past, plowing in 

1962) you will find many tractors plowing but I didn't see a single wide 

front even on a couple new generation JD's. I don't know where the video 

was filmed but I suspect Indiana because of the fields and the way they 

raised the plows to go over grassed waterways; something I still see  

when we travel there to see our kids. I'm not sure, but I think the 4020 

Farmer used to own had a narrow front. Also why does no one make narrow 

front anymore? In the video, even the Ford disking has a narrow front, 

something I have never seen in our area and in years past there were a 

lot of Fords around us. Comments anyone.

            Greg Hass

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-- 

-- 

Francis Robinson

aka "farmer"

Central Indiana USA

robinson46176 at gmail.com <mailto:robinson46176 at gmail.com> 

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