[AT] JD B resurrection contemplation

Mon Apr 3 20:37:04 PDT 2017

I have removed sleeves and pistons with liquid propane with good 
results.  Liquid Nitrogen is  much safer as far as fire is concerned, 
and about 200 deg F colder.  You would have to be careful not to crack 
the pistons if you want to save them, and also not to put the rods in a 
bind when the Nitrogen is setting in the piston.    I would build a 
press using heavy I beam or channel iron, or use an existing large 
press.  I have one.  The one I used, I made a spreader across the block 
and pushed on the block while the steel piece was against the horiz. bar 
of the press.   I turned a solid piece of steel to just 1/8 inch less 
than the bore.  I also put a lot of heavy grease on the bore and side of 
my steel piece.  I was working with a Case DC, so the 4 cylinder block 
took a forklift to handle it.  I got some pressure on the block and 
piston to hold it in the press and then connected a hose to a 5 gallon 
bottle of propane and turned it upside down.  I was outside also about 
25 ft from any building.  I kept liquid propane filling the back side of 
the piston but not going on to the cylinder block.  I wanted to shrink 
the piston.  After about 10 minutes, there was a "pop"and the piston 
moved about 1/2 inch.  I pulled the piston out of the block as far as it 
would go  from the bottom.  I had to hone the bore to get the piston to 
come out the top.    I have used propane to remove sleeves as well.  I 
cut thick rubber to seal the bottom of the sleeve and filled the 
cylinder with liquid propane while the sleeve puller was attached.  I 
remove 4 dry sleeves from a Massey 65 diesel to use again in a new 
block.  I reinstalled the sleeves by freezing in a small insulated water 
jug and put loctite on the bores. The sleeves dropped in and then 
expanded to fit the bore.  Entire job on the sleeves took less than 2 
hours.  The DC Case took about 3 hrs total.   Both times I had my Dad 
helping me and we worked great together back then.  We worked quick 
without a lot of discussion.  If this would work with propane, liquid 
Nitrogen would be even better.  Just be careful that the parts do not 
get hammered, only pressed.   Remember the demonstration of the wienie. 
   It bends and flops before liquid Nitrogen.  After sitting in N2, it 
is hard as a rock.  However, when you hit it against anything, it 
shatters..

Cecil in OKla

On 4/3/2017 8:41 PM, Al Jones wrote:
> Cecil, can you elaborate on the liquid Nitrogen thing for removing
> stuck pistons?
>
> Al
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>> If you have to remove the block w/ stuck pistons, turn it upside down,
>> fill the pistons up to the tops of the skirts with liquid Nitrogen,
>> Liquid propane works too, I used it until I got a Dewar.  Let it sit
>> awhile then try to push the pistons out with a hardwood block or a heavy
>> metal spacer that just fits into the bore, and a hydraulic jack.  If you
>> have a big press that would be great.
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/2017 9:44 PM, deanvp wrote:
>>> John, Excellent advice. I've had good luck filling the cylinders with a favorite concoction, assuming both valves are closed and rocker arm and spark plugs removed, and use a long bar tied to the flywheel. Let it soak for days maybe even weeks. Each day try to turn the flywheel. When it is ready it will pop loose. Then work the flywheel back and forth until you can get it to turn several revolutions. Then have someone pull you on the tractor with it in gear with either Kerosene or Diesel fuel in the crankcase.  Let the engine turn over and over until it is fully loose.The thinner fluid helps get the cylinder wall lubricated faster than regular oil.  Then do what you normally do to start it the first time. It may exhaust all kinds of crap out the muffler and will probably exhaust a lot of blue smoke for a long time due to oil rings which may be stuck.  Get the engine up to operating temperature(200 degrees if possible) and run it at that temp for at least 15 minutes. Then !
>   s!
>>   hut it down for at least 24 hours and start it again and see if the blue smoke is less.  Repeat as necessary. The heating and cooling will eventually release the stuck rings if you are lucky. I've saved three 2 cylinder JD engines this way and have never needed to tear them down.  Might be worth a try. Worst case you will have to tear it down.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy Tablet
>>> -------- Original message --------From: John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com> Date: 4/2/17  7:00 PM  (GMT-07:00) To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> Subject: Re: [AT] JD B resurrection contemplation
>>> If the cylinders are stuck because they are full of water, then nothing,
>>> you are going to have to take it apart and remove the gunk. VERIFY that
>>> the valves are not stuck or you WILL break something (been there done
>>> that)---ever notice how many hit-and-miss engines have the rocker arm
>>> post welded back to the head? The problem with trying to soak a Deere is
>>> the amount of fluid it takes to fill up the cylinder, of course if there
>>> is a valve open you are going to be filling up something else as well.
>>> When we were working on my Titan 10-20 (also a 2 cylinder horizontal
>>> engine), I just went to Lowes and bought a gallon of wd-40 and poured
>>> half in each cylinder and let it soak until we ever got it in the shop,
>>> somewhere between a week and 2 months, I don't remember. I've heard good
>>> things about diesel and ATF, besides its cheap. If this turns out to be
>>> a worst case scenario of frozen solid, Then pull the engine and safely
>>> secure it with the bores upright so you can resort to better penetrating
>>> oils such as PB-Blaster or Kroil. I had one so bad once we poured in
>>> diesel fuel and set it on fire. Obviously there are many dangers with
>>> that and you need to think ahead and have at least one other person
>>> around for help. Know before you decide to beat the crap out of the
>>> pistons to remove them, you need to make something that has a little bit
>>> of clearance in the bore and has a relieved center--remember the center
>>> of the piston isn't stuck so you don't need to hit it--you need to hit
>>> the skirt/sides, thats the reason for the relieved face. I've heard of
>>> using wood but I prefer metal myself. For really bad engines I've heard
>>> of dry ice, boiling water,lots of ideas. Lets hope yours is rather
>>> "boring" and comes apart easily.
>>>
>>> Well I got long winded on that, keep us posted please, been a LOOOOOOONG
>>> time since anyone here actually took on a restoration like this (if they
>>> did I don't recall any posts about it).
>>>
>>> John Hall
>>>
>>> On 4/2/2017 5:52 PM, Al Jones wrote:
>>>> Now, I know it's been discussed a million times, and everyone has their favorite, but what do you think would be the best "julip" to start soaking it with?  My notion is to fill the spark plug holes as well as fill the main case....I fear there's rust in the crankcase/tranny because the gear shift lever is stuck.
>>>>
>>>> Al
>>>>
>>>>
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