[AT] It's trying, but... no lift

Cecil Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Fri Sep 16 14:34:56 PDT 2016 

I had this happen on an american made one many years ago.

Cecil in OKla


On 9/16/2016 4:21 PM, Scott Williams wrote:
> Thanks for all the informative replies, everyone, and especially thanks to
> Cecil for getting me to look at the controls more closely.
>
> So there's the inner quadrant (position control), and the outer quadrant
> (draft control.)  The inner is the one I use to lift the mower.  The outer
> one, I assume is for plowing?  Something to do with draft pressure?  The
> words on both are in French, I think, for no reason I can determine.  The
> position control says
>
> BASSE <- POSITION -> HAUTE    TRANS PORT    POMPAGE CONTINU
>
> The draft control says
>
> BAS <- EFFOR -> HAUT
>
> Anyway, with the outer quadrant all the way up, it wasn't working.  Putting
> it down didn't help.  BUT... something I overlooked until I got this advice
> from Cecil - there's a "stop" near the top of the movement.  I moved the
> lever in and past the "stop", to the very top spot - SUCCESS!!  Now works
> like it should.  I guess a branch knocked it off the top stop while I was
> working, and I wasn't familiar enough with it to recognize what had
> happened.  So, working as well as ever.
>
> When I shut the tractor off with the mower up, it settles back to the ground
> in less than 30 seconds.  I know this is a problem, but since it otherwise
> works, I'm not going to get into fixing it, unless it's very
> easy/uninvolved.  Taking off the lift cover isn't something I'm ready to
> tackle.
>
> Let the mowing continue!
>
> Scott in Penfield NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:30 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Subject: Re: [AT] It's trying, but... no lift
>
> Those systems were a piston pump with an unloader valve and a relief valve.
> I have seen a few relief valves go bad in my years of working with Ferguson
> systems, but it is rare.  It is possible that sitting out in the open over
> the winter in NY created enough condensation that the spring in the relief
> valve rusted and broke.  The control/relief valves were pretty reliable, but
> they had their issues.  My first guess is that the rings in the top deck
> hydraulic piston have broken and the oil is
> leaking by in the lift piston.   There is also the possibility tht this
> machine has set for so long and then moved around and loosened up the crud
> in the bottom of the sump and the screen has picked it up.
>
> Please note the what I am going to tell  you is from the regular 135
> tractors and the 35 tractors.  The vineyard may be different,
> conceptually they are the same..   A good FACTORY service manual is
> invaluable here.   I got burned by I&T manuals, so I really do not
> recommend them anymore.  The Wisconsin historical society may have a reprint
> of the manual available for you.  They have a lot and their charge for
> reprints is really cheap.
>
> On the lift control quadrant ( right side hyd lift lever )  There should be
> 2 levers.  The long one for lift and the short one for draft.
> Sometimes the draft control will over ride the lift.  The draft control
> lever(short one with the square metal knob) should be between the 2 arrows
> that say draft on the quadrant.  It should be stamped into the metal.
>     That knob should be in the center between the arrows.  Then try to raise
> the lift with the other lever.  if not, leave the lift lever a little below
> the top and then move the draft lever to see if anything happens.  This
> might fix your problem.  If not see below.  If you are going to change the
> fluid, you need to clean the screen.
>
> On the left side of the transmission, under the seat is a round plate with
> the PTO lever.  Remove the plate with the lever. Disconnect the PTO shaft
> and start the tractor with the mower attached.  Raise the lift and watch for
> fluid draining from the top deck lift piston and dripping down
> into the sump.  A drip is OK, we just do not want a gusher..   If it
> just drips, your problem is in the bottom.
>
> inside the transmission about 4 to 6 inches in the bottom is a filter screen
> that looks about the size of a pop can It has a top and bottom cup, and is
> separated about an inch in the middle.  The top half has a metal handle
> piece that you use to unscrew counterclockwise the top is attached to a bolt
> that screws into the intake of the pump.  You take the screen with both cups
> out and wash it out.  This is easiest when the oil is drained.  There are 2
> drain plugs,  one under the front of the transmission behind the clutch
> housing, and the other under the plate you took off. If the screen is full
> of junk, you have found the problem.
>
> When you replace the round plate with the PTO lever,  make sure the inside
> lever goes in the slot of the PTO shifter.
>
> If you have any problems, take some pictures and post on here. We will try
> to fix it remotely!!
>
> Cecil in oKla
>
>
> On 9/15/2016 7:38 AM, Bo Hinch wrote:
>> Sounds to me like you have a piece of trash in the pressure unloader
>> valve .
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:28 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> Just a few quick thoughts Scott.
>>>
>>> 1)  you used the word "suddenly".  Was it literally fine one minute
>>> and problematic the next?  Or, did it actually go away sort of gradually?
>>>
>>> 2)  Have you tried it again since?
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve O.
>>> PS:  when I'm faced with draining ~8 gallons (I've got about 7
>>> gallons in my modern-ish Ford 1520 hydrostat)  I drain part of it and
>>> stick the drain plug back in, then deal with the amount (2-3 gallons)
>>> I've drained, then repeat as required.  OK, yeah, putting the drain
>>> plug back into a stream of draining oil is a bit messy admittedly.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> Thanks for all the informative replies, everyone, and especially thanks to
> Cecil for getting me to look at the controls more closely.
>
> So there's the inner quadrant (position control), and the outer quadrant
> (draft control.)  The inner is the one I use to lift the mower.  The outer
> one, I assume is for plowing?  Something to do with draft pressure?  The
> words on both are in French, I think, for no reason I can determine.  The
> position control says
>
> BASSE <- POSITION -> HAUTE    TRANS PORT    POMPAGE CONTINU
>
> The draft control says
>
> BAS <- EFFOR -> HAUT
>
> Anyway, with the outer quadrant all the way up, it wasn't working.  Putting
> it down didn't help.  BUT... something I overlooked until I got this advice
> from Cecil - there's a "stop" near the top of the movement.  I moved the
> lever in and past the "stop", to the very top spot - SUCCESS!!  Now works
> like it should.  I guess a branch knocked it off the top stop while I was
> working, and I wasn't familiar enough with it to recognize what had
> happened.  So, working as well as ever.
>
> When I shut the tractor off with the mower up, it settles back to the ground
> in less than 30 seconds.  I know this is a problem, but since it otherwise
> works, I'm not going to get into fixing it, unless it's very
> easy/uninvolved.  Taking off the lift cover isn't something I'm ready to
> tackle.
>
> Let the mowing continue!
>
> Scott in Penfield NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:30 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Subject: Re: [AT] It's trying, but... no lift
>
> Those systems were a piston pump with an unloader valve and a relief valve.
> I have seen a few relief valves go bad in my years of working with Ferguson
> systems, but it is rare.  It is possible that sitting out in the open over
> the winter in NY created enough condensation that the spring in the relief
> valve rusted and broke.  The control/relief valves were pretty reliable, but
> they had their issues.  My first guess is that the rings in the top deck
> hydraulic piston have broken and the oil is
> leaking by in the lift piston.   There is also the possibility tht this
> machine has set for so long and then moved around and loosened up the crud
> in the bottom of the sump and the screen has picked it up.
>
> Please note the what I am going to tell  you is from the regular 135
> tractors and the 35 tractors.  The vineyard may be different,
> conceptually they are the same..   A good FACTORY service manual is
> invaluable here.   I got burned by I&T manuals, so I really do not
> recommend them anymore.  The Wisconsin historical society may have a reprint
> of the manual available for you.  They have a lot and their charge for
> reprints is really cheap.
>
> On the lift control quadrant ( right side hyd lift lever )  There should be
> 2 levers.  The long one for lift and the short one for draft.
> Sometimes the draft control will over ride the lift.  The draft control
> lever(short one with the square metal knob) should be between the 2 arrows
> that say draft on the quadrant.  It should be stamped into the metal.
>     That knob should be in the center between the arrows.  Then try to raise
> the lift with the other lever.  if not, leave the lift lever a little below
> the top and then move the draft lever to see if anything happens.  This
> might fix your problem.  If not see below.  If you are going to change the
> fluid, you need to clean the screen.
>
> On the left side of the transmission, under the seat is a round plate with
> the PTO lever.  Remove the plate with the lever. Disconnect the PTO shaft
> and start the tractor with the mower attached.  Raise the lift and watch for
> fluid draining from the top deck lift piston and dripping down
> into the sump.  A drip is OK, we just do not want a gusher..   If it
> just drips, your problem is in the bottom.
>
> inside the transmission about 4 to 6 inches in the bottom is a filter screen
> that looks about the size of a pop can It has a top and bottom cup, and is
> separated about an inch in the middle.  The top half has a metal handle
> piece that you use to unscrew counterclockwise the top is attached to a bolt
> that screws into the intake of the pump.  You take the screen with both cups
> out and wash it out.  This is easiest when the oil is drained.  There are 2
> drain plugs,  one under the front of the transmission behind the clutch
> housing, and the other under the plate you took off. If the screen is full
> of junk, you have found the problem.
>
> When you replace the round plate with the PTO lever,  make sure the inside
> lever goes in the slot of the PTO shifter.
>
> If you have any problems, take some pictures and post on here. We will try
> to fix it remotely!!
>
> Cecil in oKla
>
>
> On 9/15/2016 7:38 AM, Bo Hinch wrote:
>> Sounds to me like you have a piece of trash in the pressure unloader
>> valve .
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:28 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> Just a few quick thoughts Scott.
>>>
>>> 1)  you used the word "suddenly".  Was it literally fine one minute
>>> and problematic the next?  Or, did it actually go away sort of gradually?
>>>
>>> 2)  Have you tried it again since?
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve O.
>>> PS:  when I'm faced with draining ~8 gallons (I've got about 7
>>> gallons in my modern-ish Ford 1520 hydrostat)  I drain part of it and
>>> stick the drain plug back in, then deal with the amount (2-3 gallons)
>>> I've drained, then repeat as required.  OK, yeah, putting the drain
>>> plug back into a stream of draining oil is a bit messy admittedly.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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