[AT] OT LED question

Sat Nov 5 08:39:09 PDT 2016

Ken,  we wouldn't be having this discussion if Steve would have
put some disclaimer in his reply as you and others did that would
allow that I MIGHT POSSIBLY be right.  But as he always does,
with me at least, he goes into his professorial lecture about why
I am wrong.  I know he's smart and talented but I'm a bit tired of
him constantly picking apart everything I say.  This has been going on
for years and I'm sick of it.   I feel like if I simply misspelled a word he 
would
point it out.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen Offiler
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 9:29 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question

Thank you, Ken.

Charlie, I merely stated a few facts regarding 100W incandescents.  Nothing
I said was intended to argue against anything you said.  You are reading
way too much into this.

I would go on to explain the concept of efficacy in lighting, and how much
it varies with incandescents of the conventional as well as the halogen
variety, and how you can still design a conventional (non-halogen) 100W
incan but there's no free lunch; if it meets government regulations its
life will be a small fraction of what you'd call reasonable.  But I'll stop
here to keep the peace.

SO

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Ken Knierim <ken.knierim at gmail.com> wrote:

> Charlie, please ease up. Steve is a talented, detail-oriented engineer and
> he's correct. halogen lamps are a type of incandescent light.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp
>
> Rough service bulbs can still be made here in the US last I knew. It's a
> corner case they allowed for awhile.
>
> In Arizona the ballasts in the CFL's do NOT like the heat and die
> frequently. And don't break one or you have mercury to deal with.
>
> Since I (may) sell and service semiconductor equipment for Cree I am
> partial to their hardware (can't say for certain due to lawyers of 
> course),
> but any new technology will have its warts. The Phillips/Lumileds parts
> seem to be rated for higher temp operation and that's important for 
> outdoor
> lighting here. The Feit Electric (chinese) parts have a higher failure 
> rate
> in my limited tested.
>
> Ken in AZ
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> > Charlie, are they by any chance what they refer to as a heavy duty or a
> > rough service bulb? I know they can still make those legally. I got so
> > tired of the florescent squiggly bulbs in our barn, try feeding horses
> > at 4 AM, when it's 0 degrees outside, all I would get is a faint glow.
> > Replaced all the bulbs with _300 watt_ incandescent bulbs, now I
> > actually see and work on my tan.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mike M
> >
> > On 11/4/2016 6:22 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> > > There you go again Steve.  I TOLD YOU IT IS A 100 WATT INCANDESCENT
> BULB.
> > > Did I say anything about a halogen bulb inside a incandescent 
> > > envelope?
> > > I know you think I'm stupid but give it a break man.  Do you have to
> > argue
> > > with
> > > EVERYTHING anyone says to you??????????????????????????????
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stephen Offiler
> > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 5:47 PM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > >
> > > The act of Congress that imposed efficiency restrictions on lighting,
> > > effectively outlawing those old-school 100 watt incandescent bulbs, 
> > > was
> > > signed into law by President Bush in 2007.  It's called the EISA, the
> > > Energy Independence and Security Act.
> > >
> > > It is possible to manufacture a 100-watt bulb that meets EISA, with a
> > > halogen bulb inside a normal incandescent glass envelope.  It would be
> > > cheaper to manufacture this design in low-labor-cost countries such as
> > > China.
> > >
> > > Why does my local power company  subsidize the purchase of LED bulbs?
> > > Seems backward, doesn't it?  They are going to be selling me less
> > > electricity.
> > >
> > > SO
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:31 PM, charlie hill <
> charliehill at embarqmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I recently found out that I can buy incandescent 100 W bulbs off the
> > shelf
> > >> at
> > >> the convenience store 1 mile from my house!  NO these aren't new old
> > stock
> > >> and
> > >> the store owner didn't stock up before the ban.  They come in every
> > week,
> > >> replenished
> > >> by the service merchandizer and on sale in plain view, not hidden in
> the
> > >> back room or
> > >> under the counter.  The only thing is .... they are MADE IN CHINA....
> > >> Thousands of American
> > >> jobs lost but the bulbs that were supposedly causing the seas to rise
> > are
> > >> still available.
> > >> SO, I think we now know the REAL reason why they were outlawed.
> > >>
> > >> Charlie
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Dick Day
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 4:08 PM
> > >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT LED question
> > >>
> > >> To add to what Spencer said, this, even grumpier, old man knows that
> the
> > >> failure rate of most LED's is pretty dismal.  Actually, I believe 
> > >> it's
> > the
> > >> drivers that fail.
> > >>
> > >> I like not using as much electricity and I like the almost instant-on
> in
> > >> super cold temps but that all comes at a price.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Spencer Yost <yostsw at atis.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> You folks know me:   I try really hard to not be that grumpy old man
> > >>> that
> > >>> says everything new is terrible.  In fact I don't even have to try
> all
> > >>> that
> > >>> hard.  Adapting comes naturally.
> > >>>
> > >>> However I am that grumpy old man when it comes to light bulbs 
> > >>> tho....
> > >>> I
> > >>> hate CFLs and LEDs.   None of them last like they claim and the 
> > >>> light
> > >>> quality stinks.
> > >>>
> > >>> You have my sympathy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Tractor/ATIS reference:
> > >>>
> > >>> General purpose LED bulbs are  not dimmable without side effects,
> for
> > >>> enclosed housings or rough service.   In fact one LED in a dimmable
> > >>> circuit
> > >>> would make my UPS (that keeps ATIS up during power outages)
> transformer
> > >>> hum. It was the weirdest thing.   Slide the dimmer down halfway and
> the
> > >>> UPS
> > >>> would make a racket.   All the way up and it would be fine.
> >  Completely
> > >>> different circuits too.   The bulb itself would dim fine without
> effect
> > >>> but
> > >>> my UPS hated it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Spencer Yost
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Nov 2, 2016, at 9:50 AM, <rlgoss at twc.com> <rlgoss at twc.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I had that happen on an LED desk lamp.  It turned out that one
> portion
> > >>> of the circuitry went open-circuit and the lamp was working at about
> > >> half.
> > >>> The store gave me a replacement for it and everything has been fine
> > >>> since
> > >>> then.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Larry
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ---- Ron Cook <ron at lakeport-1.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> Based on the discussion here a little over a year ago, I put some
> LED
> > >>>>> lights here and there.  One being in the kitchen.  Seemed good.
> > >>>>> However,
> > >>>>> lately I have been having trouble seeing well in the kitchen. 
> > >>>>> Just
> > >>>>> seemed like there was not enough light.  I just screwed the CREE
> LED
> > >>>>> out
> > >>>>> and installed one of my old 100W incandescent bulbs.  Holy
> Smokes!!!!
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> can see again.  I was getting worried about my eyes.  Why has this
> > >>>>> expensive LED bulb dimmed down??  I think the govmnt stuck it to 
> > >>>>> us
> > >>>>> again like the digital television signal.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Ron
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
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