[AT] Off Topic, Logging property

Mark Greer markagreer at embarqmail.com
Sun Sep 23 10:26:32 PDT 2012 

With the next big earthquake and a little bit of luck, it will become a separate country and leave the rest of us alone.


----- Original Message -----
I can't seem to find anything on Google about what KA is ... must not be
important.
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dave Rotigel
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:13 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property

Didn't someone once say "Those who give up their liberty for security live
in KA and vote for OBAMA"?
	Dave

On Sep 23, 2012, at 7:15 AM, charlie hill wrote:

> I think Mr. Jefferson made the definitive statement on this subject a 
> few hundred years ago.  Unfortunately we didn't listen well.
> 
> "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the 
> blood of patriots and tyrants. ... God forbid we should ever be twenty 
> years without such a rebellion; what country can preserve its 
> liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their 
> people preserve the spirit of resistance?  Let them take arms." -- 
> Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Meulenberg
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 12:44 AM
> To: at
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
> 
> But therin lies the problem Grant, you see the old trees once 
> established have figured out how to pass rules in the forest to make 
> sure they never get pruned. They take fruit and seeds from some 
> plants, and distribute them to other plants and animals in the forest, 
> making sure those plants and animals know that the old trees where 
> responsible for their freebies. Now when it comes time to get pruned 
> guess who is seen as too valuable to prune? Why of course it's the old 
> trees who provide for all the other plants animals of the forest, with 
> things that don't belong to them in the first place. Mike M
> 
> 
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Grant Brians
> Receiver: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Time: 2012-09-21, 11:54:35
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
> 
> 
> Every so often a
> massive pruning is just smart. When did we have a massive pruning 
> last???? I look forward to that happening, but also a society of law 
> is not Socialism, it is a functioning society.
>       Grant Brians
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Dave Rotigel
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:22 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
> 
> 
> You mean that in KA there are still some areas where an individual 
> still has the freedom to use their personal property as they see fit? 
> This is NOT GOOD! VOTE OBAMA and and MORE socialism!
>  Dave
> PS, "Land of Fruits and Nuts"? Now I understand!
> 
> On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Grant Brians wrote:
> 
>> Here in California we have two basic classes of forest - those in 
>> areas where there are controls enforced and those where the controls are
not.
> The
>> Santa Cruz Mountains near us are one of the areas that are managed 
>> forests that the timber companies only harvest in ways that are 
>> sustainable and everyone involved KNOWS that the plan will be 
>> followed. On the other hand, even though plans are required for any 
>> forests, here in my county, there
> are
>> people that just indiscriminately cut down the old growth oak and 
>> pines
> and
>> assume the state's foresters will not catch them or will just 
>> admonish
> them.
>> I know of one rancher that is a terrible offender like this, but so 
>> far
> the
>> forester has not been able to prove that the rancher is the one doing 
>> the work because the forester covers an area about the size of Sweden....
>> Firewood collection is something that is needed from some of our 
>> forests to assure the larger trees make it to harvest maturity 
>> because of the low precipitation levels of much of California. But at 
>> the same time intelligence is CLEARLY needed to retain the soils 
>> (nearly all forest in California is on hillsides or mountainsides, 
>> much of which exceeds 30% grades and some as much as 75%) and to keep 
>> the proper mix of plants to support wildlife and control erosion. 
>> Some states do not require forest management plans, but thankfully we 
>> do - the lack thereof in past times
> led
>> to spectacular flood events and property and habitat destruction, we
> learned
>> the hard way and with many lawyers and insurance companies involved....
>> Grant Brians
>> Hollister,California Vegetable, Fruit and Nuts farmer
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Mattias 
>> Kessen
>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:47 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
>> 
>> 
>> You Americans never seize to surprise. No offense but is it common to 
>> own forest without a plan and harvest often for firewood. I'm 
>> beginning to question my understanding of the English language and I 
>> know little about modern forest industry here but... I'm surprised. 
>> I've always thought forest to be a long term investment. Once again 
>> no offense I'm aware that our societies are very different and can't 
>> be compared therefor (which is very apparent when you read most 
>> Swedish newspapers reporting from USA, using our standards for you is
absurd as the other way around).
>> I think I've got to pour me another whisky here in the sauna and read 
>> more of Arto Paasilinnas great authorship.
>> 
>> Mattias
>> Den 17 sep 2012 16:22 skrev "Mark Greer" <markagreer at embarqmail.com>:
>> 
>>> You need to create a "Timber Management Plan". This involves having 
>>> a qualified forester advise/help you develop a plan for your 
>>> woodlot's specific conditions and your specific intentions for it. 
>>> You will
>> inventory
>>> and value trees which have good potential and then develop a plan to 
>>> help them reach that potential at a faster rate. This involves 
>>> Timber Stand Improvement (TSI) work which may include selective 
>>> thinning around crop trees, trimming/removing grape vines, selective 
>>> harvesting for timber, etc., etc. It is an ongoing process but can 
>>> be financially very much
> worth
>>> your while. Your local Ag Extension service would be one place to 
>>> start looking for this information to get started. Pennsylvania DCNR 
>>> is also a good place to start looking for information.
>>> 
>>> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/privatelands.aspx
>>> 
>>> An active Timber Management plan is a must for land owned where you 
>>> plan to sell timber some day. The tax ramifications of not having a 
>>> documented working plan can make it not worth selling timber because 
>>> you stand to
>> lose
>>> so much of a sale to taxes. By inventorying and valuing the trees at 
>>> the time of land purchase and then looking at the difference in 
>>> value at the time of sale, you can count a sale as a capital gain 
>>> and only owe the
>> lower
>>> capital gains tax rate on the difference (the capital gain) vs. just 
>>> selling timber and paying the higher income tax rate on the WHOLE sale.
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, I think I'm going to contact an un-biased forester and create a 
>>> logging plan.
>>> 
>>> Hopefully we will follow the plan and there will be no surprises in 
>>> the family.
>>> 
>>> Thank you everybody for the information.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Will
>>> SE PA
>>> 
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