[AT] More on the water pump

[Paul Waugh]

I am grateful that I have two good ones working for me.  I have a Ford 
dealer and have become friends with the service manager. I can not think of 
a single time where they did not fix the problem the first time, and only 
change the necessary part. He has told of trying something else, did not 
work, remove the part and put the old back in.
The other is a local guy who has made life's income off his shop. Good 
service and word of mouth and he has enough to keep him and 3 employees 
busy. He supervises so as done "his" way, there again not shoot from hip and 
try things. Things are studied and solution applied.
So glad there are some good guys out there.
Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "charlie hill" <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] More on the water pump


> Larry no one is talking about "jerry-rigged".  I'm talking about mechanics
> that are too stupid to figure out the problem and replace oh let's say 3
> sensors, 4 fuel injectors and an intake plenum before they figure out that
> the problem was a hole in a vacuum line.  I'm also not talking about
> warranty work.  I personally don't care how many new parts they put on
> something they are fixing under warranty.  I'm talking about when you go 
> to
> a shop and the mechanic is too stupid or lazy to try and fix the problem 
> and
> just throws expensive parts at it until he gets lucky and fixes the 
> problem
> by accident.  All the while he has his mind on getting his drag car tuned 
> up
> for Saturday night and pads your bill to pay for the new part(s) he needs
> for the race car.  Maybe that doesn't happen where you are but it sure
> happens here.  I can tell you LOTS of war stories about it.  Here's one
> great example:
>
> Lynn bought a Buick new in '97.  While it was under warranty it started
> having a foul odor come out of the air conditioner ducts.  It smelled like
> sweaty socks.  The dealership that works on it advertizes every day here 
> on
> radio that they have the most highly trained Buick, Cadillac, GMC service
> department in NC and how they exceed GM requirements for certifications by
> 400% or some such number.  I took the car to them.  They "fixed it" and 
> told
> me they sprayed the air conditioning ducts with something to kill the odor
> (that was the fix).  Well they didn't fix it and soon the heater duct was
> filling up with condensed water and running out on the floor.   There was 
> so
> much condensation that it was starting to build up on the back face of a
> plastic cover over some dash board mounted instrument lights.  I took it
> back and asked them to fix it and to check the condensation behind that
> clear plastic dash panel.  I went back to get it.  They told me it was
> fixed.  I asked about the condensation and the service writer snapped back
> at me "that's not condensation... THAT's MOISTURE.   It still wasn't 
> fixed.
> I took it back and  talked to the head  service manager.  When I went back
> to get it he came out and talked to me and told me he had found a service
> bulletin on it and had placed a "delay relay" on the AC fan to make it run
> after the AC fan cut off to dry the ducts.  What he did was take an old
> relay that makes the radiator fan come on after a car has been turned off 
> to
> cool down the cooling system and mount it on the fender with the wire 
> tucked
> into the AC Duct.  He didn't fix anything.  He just stuck that up there to
> "satisfy" me and get me to leave.  That was on about the 4th or 5th trip.
> I had finally gotten tired of fooling with them so I didn't say a word.  I
> just pretended to buy his line of BS and took the car home, drove it
> straddle a ditch, crawled under it, took a piece of wire and pulled the AC
> system drain nipple down like it was supposed to be.  It had somehow 
> gotten
> tucked up like an "inny" navel instead of hanging down like it should.  I
> knew from the beginning that the problem was with that drain and had told
> them so.  I don't know what kind of game they were trying to play.  After 
> I
> fixed it I never took it back to them again.  I have the "delay relay"
> laying right here on the floor beside me right now.  I keep it as a
> reminder.   I know both of the owners of that dealership and consider them
> to be friends but their service dept is a total fraud.
>
> NOW that was a factory dealer and under warranty.  The independent shops
> around here are even worse.  The ones that do know how to work on new cars
> with sophisticated electronic systems are too interested in what they can
> charge you to look for a problem. (replacing an intake plenum pays better 
> by
> the book than replacing a vacuum line).  The small, old school shops that 
> do
> honest work, the guys you call "shade tree mechanics" don't have the
> equipment or training to diagnose the problems.  I'm not an idiot or a
> complainer but I have the good sense to know when I'm getting ripped off.
>
> Want another example of factory dealer work?  I had an 89 GMC pickup that
> was about 3 months old.  It started blowing out water.  The dealer 
> replaced
> a head gasket under warranty and did a good job of it with one exception. 
> I
> left his shop and got about 5 miles when the serpentine belt flew off.
> Luckily it didn't hurt anything.  I put it back on and limped back to the
> dealer.  I had to get the service manager and the mechanic out let me show
> them the shims they had left out behind the power steering bracket.  The
> pulley was cocked around probably 5 degrees or more and they couldn't see
> it.  When they put it back the head back on and put it back together they
> left them out.  The service manager couldn't even see the problem after I
> pointed it out to him.
>
> Want another example of an independent shop?  How about replacing 4 AC 
> Delco
> iridium spark plugs as part of other work.  It was a six cyl car.  Don't 
> ask
> me why they didn't replace the other two but that's beside the point.  I
> think they were too hard to get to.  The shops bill had a breakdown for
> parts and a separate break down for labor.  Under  the parts break down I
> could read on the carbon copy he gave me where he had changed the price of
> the 4 spark plugs from $38. 40 to $58.40 and finally to $88.40.  Again 
> this
> was the cost of the parts.  The labor was charged separate.  The plugs at
> the time sold new at the factory dealer (I called two) for $7.60 each so I
> guess he changed the 0 to an 8 but I could tell that on the carbon.  I can
> buy them from the dealer for list less 30% so I know he can too.  I don't
> mind him making money on them.  He has to but when you write in a price 
> and
> then kick it up by 20 bucks and then by 30 more bucks that is just theft.
> When I looked at the bill I said "those are some expensive spark plugs".
> He mumbled something and walked off.  I paid him and left.  It only cost 
> me
> $50 bucks to find out he was a thief.  I considered myself lucky.  The 
> rest
> of the parts were correctly priced.  I'm willing to bet he did that to pay
> for some part he wanted from the dealer for his race car.
>
> To tell you the truth I wish I could tell you about the time I took a car 
> to
> a shop around here and got the work done right the first time at a
> reasonable (not cheap just reasonable) price but I can't.  Heck I'd settle
> for getting it done right and forget about the cost.  You are probably
> reading this thinking I'm just a complainer that can't be satisfied.
> Nothing could be further from the truth.  What I am is a guy that knows
> enough about the work I'm getting done to know when I'm getting ripped 
> off.
>
> Charlie