[AT] More on the water pump

[David Rotigel]

Hi Charlie,
	Sounds to me as though your real problem is with GM products and GM  
service. I've had real good "luck" with Ford and Ford dealer service  
over the years
		Dave

On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:07 AM, charlie hill wrote:

> Larry no one is talking about "jerry-rigged".  I'm talking about  
> mechanics
> that are too stupid to figure out the problem and replace oh let's  
> say 3
> sensors, 4 fuel injectors and an intake plenum before they figure  
> out that
> the problem was a hole in a vacuum line.  I'm also not talking about
> warranty work.  I personally don't care how many new parts they put on
> something they are fixing under warranty.  I'm talking about when  
> you go to
> a shop and the mechanic is too stupid or lazy to try and fix the  
> problem and
> just throws expensive parts at it until he gets lucky and fixes the  
> problem
> by accident.  All the while he has his mind on getting his drag car  
> tuned up
> for Saturday night and pads your bill to pay for the new part(s) he  
> needs
> for the race car.  Maybe that doesn't happen where you are but it sure
> happens here.  I can tell you LOTS of war stories about it.  Here's  
> one
> great example:
>
> Lynn bought a Buick new in '97.  While it was under warranty it  
> started
> having a foul odor come out of the air conditioner ducts.  It  
> smelled like
> sweaty socks.  The dealership that works on it advertizes every day  
> here on
> radio that they have the most highly trained Buick, Cadillac, GMC  
> service
> department in NC and how they exceed GM requirements for  
> certifications by
> 400% or some such number.  I took the car to them.  They "fixed it"  
> and told
> me they sprayed the air conditioning ducts with something to kill  
> the odor
> (that was the fix).  Well they didn't fix it and soon the heater  
> duct was
> filling up with condensed water and running out on the floor.    
> There was so
> much condensation that it was starting to build up on the back face  
> of a
> plastic cover over some dash board mounted instrument lights.  I  
> took it
> back and asked them to fix it and to check the condensation behind  
> that
> clear plastic dash panel.  I went back to get it.  They told me it was
> fixed.  I asked about the condensation and the service writer  
> snapped back
> at me "that's not condensation... THAT's MOISTURE.   It still wasn't  
> fixed.
> I took it back and  talked to the head  service manager.  When I  
> went back
> to get it he came out and talked to me and told me he had found a  
> service
> bulletin on it and had placed a "delay relay" on the AC fan to make  
> it run
> after the AC fan cut off to dry the ducts.  What he did was take an  
> old
> relay that makes the radiator fan come on after a car has been  
> turned off to
> cool down the cooling system and mount it on the fender with the  
> wire tucked
> into the AC Duct.  He didn't fix anything.  He just stuck that up  
> there to
> "satisfy" me and get me to leave.  That was on about the 4th or 5th  
> trip.
> I had finally gotten tired of fooling with them so I didn't say a  
> word.  I
> just pretended to buy his line of BS and took the car home, drove it
> straddle a ditch, crawled under it, took a piece of wire and pulled  
> the AC
> system drain nipple down like it was supposed to be.  It had somehow  
> gotten
> tucked up like an "inny" navel instead of hanging down like it  
> should.  I
> knew from the beginning that the problem was with that drain and had  
> told
> them so.  I don't know what kind of game they were trying to play.   
> After I
> fixed it I never took it back to them again.  I have the "delay relay"
> laying right here on the floor beside me right now.  I keep it as a
> reminder.   I know both of the owners of that dealership and  
> consider them
> to be friends but their service dept is a total fraud.
>
> NOW that was a factory dealer and under warranty.  The independent  
> shops
> around here are even worse.  The ones that do know how to work on  
> new cars
> with sophisticated electronic systems are too interested in what  
> they can
> charge you to look for a problem. (replacing an intake plenum pays  
> better by
> the book than replacing a vacuum line).  The small, old school shops  
> that do
> honest work, the guys you call "shade tree mechanics" don't have the
> equipment or training to diagnose the problems.  I'm not an idiot or a
> complainer but I have the good sense to know when I'm getting ripped  
> off.
>
> Want another example of factory dealer work?  I had an 89 GMC pickup  
> that
> was about 3 months old.  It started blowing out water.  The dealer  
> replaced
> a head gasket under warranty and did a good job of it with one  
> exception.  I
> left his shop and got about 5 miles when the serpentine belt flew off.
> Luckily it didn't hurt anything.  I put it back on and limped back  
> to the
> dealer.  I had to get the service manager and the mechanic out let  
> me show
> them the shims they had left out behind the power steering bracket.   
> The
> pulley was cocked around probably 5 degrees or more and they  
> couldn't see
> it.  When they put it back the head back on and put it back together  
> they
> left them out.  The service manager couldn't even see the problem  
> after I
> pointed it out to him.
>
> Want another example of an independent shop?  How about replacing 4  
> AC Delco
> iridium spark plugs as part of other work.  It was a six cyl car.   
> Don't ask
> me why they didn't replace the other two but that's beside the  
> point.  I
> think they were too hard to get to.  The shops bill had a breakdown  
> for
> parts and a separate break down for labor.  Under  the parts break  
> down I
> could read on the carbon copy he gave me where he had changed the  
> price of
> the 4 spark plugs from $38. 40 to $58.40 and finally to $88.40.   
> Again this
> was the cost of the parts.  The labor was charged separate.  The  
> plugs at
> the time sold new at the factory dealer (I called two) for $7.60  
> each so I
> guess he changed the 0 to an 8 but I could tell that on the carbon.   
> I can
> buy them from the dealer for list less 30% so I know he can too.  I  
> don't
> mind him making money on them.  He has to but when you write in a  
> price and
> then kick it up by 20 bucks and then by 30 more bucks that is just  
> theft.
> When I looked at the bill I said "those are some expensive spark  
> plugs".
> He mumbled something and walked off.  I paid him and left.  It only  
> cost me
> $50 bucks to find out he was a thief.  I considered myself lucky.   
> The rest
> of the parts were correctly priced.  I'm willing to bet he did that  
> to pay
> for some part he wanted from the dealer for his race car.
>
> To tell you the truth I wish I could tell you about the time I took  
> a car to
> a shop around here and got the work done right the first time at a
> reasonable (not cheap just reasonable) price but I can't.  Heck I'd  
> settle
> for getting it done right and forget about the cost.  You are probably
> reading this thinking I'm just a complainer that can't be satisfied.
> Nothing could be further from the truth.  What I am is a guy that  
> knows
> enough about the work I'm getting done to know when I'm getting  
> ripped off.
>
> Charlie