[Farmall] International 460 Utility

Thu Dec 25 21:12:55 PST 2008

Kurt, Charlie V., Becker, and others. Thank you for the ISO information. I 
had no idea of the complexity of all those standards. It also helps me to 
know more about the viscosity thing the various temperature requirements.

bobcurrie,
greenwood, CA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Becker" <jim.becker at verizon.net>
To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility

> Bob,
> The ISO standards are still concerned with "weight" or more properly,
> viscosity.  The SAE standard 10, 20 30 etc. are specifications for motor
> oil.  They address some characteristics that are only relevant to use 
> inside
> an engine.  For example the "W" designation has to do with viscosity 
> related
> behavior at low temperatures.  Yes, the "W" means "winter", not "weight".
> The stright weight oils each meet specified viscostiy (in centiStokes) at
> 100 degrees centigrade.  The "W" rated oils additionally meet 
> specifications
> at specified low temperatures.  Multigrade oils, such as 10W30 have 
> polymers
> added that improve the viscosity index (how much viscosity changes over
> temperature) so they meet viscosity standrds of more than one straight
> grade.  A 10W30 meets the low temperature requirements of 10W and the high
> temperature requirements of 30.  In the early days of farm hydraulic
> systems, we used motor oil because that was what was readily available.
>
> SAE standards for gear oil are conceptually similar to the ones for motor
> oil but they look at different properties.  The numbers (80, 80, 120 etc.)
> are not even on the same scale as motor oil.  The room temperature 
> viscosity
> of 90 gear oil is about 50 or 60 for a motor oil.
>
> The ISO 30, 64 etc. are simply the midpoint viscosity (in centiStokes) at 
> 40
> degrees centigrade.  As with motor oil, viscosity is only one of many
> measurable properties that are important to hydraulic oil.  Any of the 
> good
> generic hydraulic oils will be labeled as conforming to stated
> specifications.  Those specifications will include viscosity requirements,
> which may be in terms of ISO 64 or whatever.  Hydraulic oil for farm and
> industrial equipment usually has viscosity index improvers, anti-foam
> agents, emulsifiers and other ingredients to improve their performance.
> Fluids that are also used in transmissions (like Hy-Tran) also have 
> extreme
> pressure additives like are common in gear oils.  Some of these are not 
> used
> in motor oil and may even be detrimental.
>
> If you look closely at a container of SAE graded motor oil or gear oil, 
> you
> will probably find an ISO spec.  For extra credit reading:
> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Tribology/Viscosity.html (even if 
> you
> skip over the formulas, look down at the charts.)
> http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=974
> (specific to ISO viscosity and hydraulics.)
>
> More than you wanted to know.
>
> Jim Becker        jim.becker at verizon.net
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "cvill" <cvill at frontiernet.net>
> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility
>
>
>> Hi Bob Currie.  How are you?
>>
>> ISO =  International Standards Organization, Bob.  It is far too massive
>> to explain, even if I knew something about it.  It basically sets world
>> standards for many, many things.  You can rest easy now, knowing that
>> the world is in control of what is in the quart of oil you buy as well
>> as the container it comes in.  The standard is extremely comprehensive
>> and sets criteria for everything from purity to viscosity of oils.
>>
>> Many sights on the net are dedicated to ISO.  Here is just one:
>>
>> http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/the_iso_portfolio/iso_portfolio_oil_and_gas.htm
>>
>>
>> Charlie V.  in Wny
>>
>>
>> Bob Currie wrote:
>>> In a conversation the other day, I talked with a mechanic who advises
>>> that
>>> HY-Tran and other hydraulic fluids are not measured in "weight" anymore,
>>> but
>>> instead to look for the ISO number. i.e., ISO30 or ISO64. I haven't seen
>>> that on any of the hydraulic fluid containers I have around here such as
>>> NAPA, or Kubota brands..Anybody know about ISO??
>>>
>>> bobcurrie
>>> greenwood, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jim Becker" <jim.becker at verizon.net>
>>> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:51 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't have anything handy to look it up, but I was thinking the early
>>>> Lift-All called out 20 weight oil.  I'm not sure you can even find that
>>>> any
>>>> more.  You certainly can't find it easily.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Becker        jim.becker at verizon.net
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In the case of the Ford N tractors, 90W oil is what they are supposed
>>>>> to
>>>>> have in the system. I suspect that 1. Ford never expected anyone to be
>>>>> using the three point hitch in sub-freezing weather and 2. the system
>>>>> is
>>>>>  based on 1930s technology, when high pressure hydraulics and light
>>>>> hydraulic oils were not in common use, certainly not for transmissions
>>>>> and final drives. This was true of IH tractors as well - the early
>>>>> "Lift
>>>>> All" systems in the H and M used 30W engine oil for hydraulic fluid,
>>>>> which was better but still pretty stiff in cold weather.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> cvill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Could we ask what oil was used for the refill.  Incorrect oil such as
>>>>>> 90W gear oil could cause this same problem.  Case in point:  I have 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> 8N ford with 90W in the gear cases.   The 3 pt. hitch will do just as
>>>>>> you describe.  The oil just gets too thick to pump.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charlie V.
>
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