[Farmall] International 460 Utility

[Jim Becker]

Bob,
The ISO standards are still concerned with "weight" or more properly, 
viscosity.  The SAE standard 10, 20 30 etc. are specifications for motor 
oil.  They address some characteristics that are only relevant to use inside 
an engine.  For example the "W" designation has to do with viscosity related 
behavior at low temperatures.  Yes, the "W" means "winter", not "weight". 
The stright weight oils each meet specified viscostiy (in centiStokes) at 
100 degrees centigrade.  The "W" rated oils additionally meet specifications 
at specified low temperatures.  Multigrade oils, such as 10W30 have polymers 
added that improve the viscosity index (how much viscosity changes over 
temperature) so they meet viscosity standrds of more than one straight 
grade.  A 10W30 meets the low temperature requirements of 10W and the high 
temperature requirements of 30.  In the early days of farm hydraulic 
systems, we used motor oil because that was what was readily available.

SAE standards for gear oil are conceptually similar to the ones for motor 
oil but they look at different properties.  The numbers (80, 80, 120 etc.) 
are not even on the same scale as motor oil.  The room temperature viscosity 
of 90 gear oil is about 50 or 60 for a motor oil.

The ISO 30, 64 etc. are simply the midpoint viscosity (in centiStokes) at 40 
degrees centigrade.  As with motor oil, viscosity is only one of many 
measurable properties that are important to hydraulic oil.  Any of the good 
generic hydraulic oils will be labeled as conforming to stated 
specifications.  Those specifications will include viscosity requirements, 
which may be in terms of ISO 64 or whatever.  Hydraulic oil for farm and 
industrial equipment usually has viscosity index improvers, anti-foam 
agents, emulsifiers and other ingredients to improve their performance. 
Fluids that are also used in transmissions (like Hy-Tran) also have extreme 
pressure additives like are common in gear oils.  Some of these are not used 
in motor oil and may even be detrimental.

If you look closely at a container of SAE graded motor oil or gear oil, you 
will probably find an ISO spec.  For extra credit reading:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Tribology/Viscosity.html (even if you 
skip over the formulas, look down at the charts.)
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=974 
(specific to ISO viscosity and hydraulics.)

More than you wanted to know.

Jim Becker        jim.becker at verizon.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cvill" <cvill at frontiernet.net>
To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility


> Hi Bob Currie.  How are you?
>
> ISO =  International Standards Organization, Bob.  It is far too massive
> to explain, even if I knew something about it.  It basically sets world
> standards for many, many things.  You can rest easy now, knowing that
> the world is in control of what is in the quart of oil you buy as well
> as the container it comes in.  The standard is extremely comprehensive
> and sets criteria for everything from purity to viscosity of oils.
>
> Many sights on the net are dedicated to ISO.  Here is just one:
>
> http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/the_iso_portfolio/iso_portfolio_oil_and_gas.htm
>
>
> Charlie V.  in Wny
>
>
> Bob Currie wrote:
>> In a conversation the other day, I talked with a mechanic who advises 
>> that
>> HY-Tran and other hydraulic fluids are not measured in "weight" anymore, 
>> but
>> instead to look for the ISO number. i.e., ISO30 or ISO64. I haven't seen
>> that on any of the hydraulic fluid containers I have around here such as
>> NAPA, or Kubota brands..Anybody know about ISO??
>>
>> bobcurrie
>> greenwood, CA
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jim Becker" <jim.becker at verizon.net>
>> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility
>>
>>
>>
>>> I don't have anything handy to look it up, but I was thinking the early
>>> Lift-All called out 20 weight oil.  I'm not sure you can even find that
>>> any
>>> more.  You certainly can't find it easily.
>>>
>>> Jim Becker        jim.becker at verizon.net
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane at verizon.net>
>>> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] International 460 Utility
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the case of the Ford N tractors, 90W oil is what they are supposed 
>>>> to
>>>> have in the system. I suspect that 1. Ford never expected anyone to be
>>>> using the three point hitch in sub-freezing weather and 2. the system 
>>>> is
>>>>  based on 1930s technology, when high pressure hydraulics and light
>>>> hydraulic oils were not in common use, certainly not for transmissions
>>>> and final drives. This was true of IH tractors as well - the early 
>>>> "Lift
>>>> All" systems in the H and M used 30W engine oil for hydraulic fluid,
>>>> which was better but still pretty stiff in cold weather.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> cvill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Could we ask what oil was used for the refill.  Incorrect oil such as
>>>>> 90W gear oil could cause this same problem.  Case in point:  I have an
>>>>> 8N ford with 90W in the gear cases.   The 3 pt. hitch will do just as
>>>>> you describe.  The oil just gets too thick to pump.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie V.