[AT] Canola to diesel

Mon Feb 5 01:01:08 PST 2007

Ok George, your right. I dont have a compression engine. Id better change 
the spark plugs, its been a while.

>From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
>Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:58:49 -0500
>
>Tom,
>
>Just because you don't understand doesn't prevent it from being so.
>
>Compression ignition requires manifold pressure very near atmospheric so
>enough air is drawn in on the intake stroke for the necessary ignition
>pressure to occur.  With the throttle plate nearly closed the manifold
>pressure, or vacuum if you prefer, prevents an adequate charge of air to be
>drawn in for the necessary compression for diesel operation.
>
>You do know that there's a throttle plate?
>
>George
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:22 PM
> > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> >
> > I do understand entirely. You said:
> >
> > "They are NOT compression ignition, a requirement for diesel, as I
> > understand the term.
> > They have a throttle plate that restricts the intake severely at low
> > speeds,
> > resulting
> > in compression ratios far below those required for true diesel
> > operation..."
> >
> > So what you are saying is, clever MB engineering causes ignition to 
>occur
> > at
> > lower compression than what is the "norm". Sound like a improvement on
> > compression engine design  if you ask me.  Perhaps thats why I have 
>267000
> > miles on
> > my MB and it still runs like a top. But nevertheless, it is STILL
> > compression ignition...So again I ask,
> > If it is not compression that ignites the diesel (and my vegetable oil)
> > than
> > what does? Throttles
> > ignite nothing.
> >
> > Saying it is not a compression engine is absurd.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:37:34 -0500
> > >
> > >I explained it but I guess you don't understand.  It isn't compression.
> > >
> > >George
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 9:21 PM
> > > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > >
> > > > If my MB doesnt ignite from a spark plug than what causes the
> > ignition?
> > > > Pre-chambers' warm the fuel but does not ignite it- Compression 
>does.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 20:23:04 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > >What you say may be mostly true, but you left out compression
> > ignition
> > > > >which
> > > > >they are not.  Whether it is truly diesel or not doesn't depend on 
>my
> > > > >opinion or yours.  I have no interest in Super Bowl.
> > > > >
> > > > >George Willer
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:04 PM
> > > > > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I cant speak for the new MB's, but If the old mercedes are not
> > true
> > > > > > diesels
> > > > > > then today isnt super bowl sunday. If it sounds like a diesel,
> > >smells
> > > > >like
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > diesel, takes diesel fuel, has lousy pickup and
> > > > > > starts hard in the cold, has 260K + miles and still purrs, and 
>can
> > >run
> > > > > > straight vegetable oil to boot, and doiesnt have spark 
>plugs,then
> > by
> > > > > > gollly,
> > > > > > its a diesel!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:34:26 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I don't think any basic changes can be retroactive.  It's been
> > >about
> > > > 17
> > > > > > >years since I drove any Mercedes regularly.  As far as I know 
>the
> > > > 190,
> > > > > > >190DC, 200D, 220D, 240D, and 300D remain pre-chamber engines.  
>As
> > > > best
> > > > >I
> > > > > > >can
> > > > > > >tell they are NOT true diesels.  The only Mercedes I currently
> > own
> > >is
> > > > a
> > > > > > 450
> > > > > > >SLC and it's too valuable to drive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >George Willer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > > > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom 
>Yasnowski
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 3:09 PM
> > > > > > > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Pre chamber"?  Sounds like you are talking about a IDI
> > engine.
> > >I
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > most of them are DI engines
> > > > > > > > now....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > > > > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > > > > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:54:53 -0500
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Mike,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Maybe I was a bit hasty... maybe it's only the auto engines
> > I'm
> > > > >quite
> > > > > > > > >familiar with that aren't true diesels.  They are NOT
> > >compression
> > > > > > > > ignition,
> > > > > > > > >a requirement for diesel, as I understand the term.  They
> > have
> > >a
> > > > > > >throttle
> > > > > > > > >plate that restricts the intake severely at low speeds,
> > >resulting
> > > > >in
> > > > > > > > >compression ratios far below those required for true diesel
> > > > > > >operation...
> > > > > > > > >possibly less than 3:1 at idle.  This throttle plate is not
> > to
> > >be
> > > > > > > > confused
> > > > > > > > >with the safety plate working like a check valve to prevent
> > the
> > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >running backward.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >They require glow plugs for starting and a heated ball pin
> > > > (acting
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > >constant glow plug) for continued running.  A broken ball 
>pin
> > > > will
> > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >cylinder unable to fire.  The injectors feed into a pre-
> > chamber
> > > > > > > > containing
> > > > > > > > >both the glow plug and the heated ball pin.  The combustion
> > > > begins
> > > > > > >there
> > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > >is forced through an orfice into the main combustion 
>chamber.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >It's understandable that many Mercedes owners aren't aware 
>of
> > >the
> > > > >odd
> > > > > > > > >ignition system since it's unlikely many even consider
> > working
> > >on
> > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > Of
> > > > > > > > >the eight I've owned 6 have been "diesels" and I've
> > completely
> > > > > > rebuilt
> > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > >of them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >George Willer
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > > > > > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> > Sloane
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:50 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mercedes aren't true diesels? You have to explain that
> > one,
> > > > > > George!
> > > > > > > > > > Mercedes Benz (aka Daimler Benz) probably makes more
> > diesel
> > > > > > engines
> > > > > > > > > > (car, trucks, marine, industrial, etc.) than any other
> > >single
> > > > > > > > > > manufacturer in the world, and if they aren't "true"
> > >diesels,
> > > > it
> > > > > > >will
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > a surprise to a LOT of owners/operators. :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > George Willer wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Mercedes has different ideas about diesel fuel...
> > possibly
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > >they
> > > > > > > > > > > aren't true diesels some other concoctions are
> > suggested.
> > > > >They
> > > > > > >even
> > > > > > > > > > endorse
> > > > > > > > > > > adding a significant amount of gasoline to the diesel 
>in
> > > > cold
> > > > > > > > weather
> > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > > improve starting.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > George Willer
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Mike Sloane
> > > > > > > > > > Allamuchy NJ
> > > > > > > > > > <mikesloane at verizon.net>
> > > > > > > > > > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
> > > > > > > > > > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound
> > >smarter
> > > > > > > > > > than optimists because they have so much evidence on 
>their
> > > > side.
> > > > > > > > > > -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007
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