[AT] Canola to diesel

George Willer gwill at gwill.net
Sun Feb 4 20:58:49 PST 2007


Tom,

Just because you don't understand doesn't prevent it from being so.

Compression ignition requires manifold pressure very near atmospheric so
enough air is drawn in on the intake stroke for the necessary ignition
pressure to occur.  With the throttle plate nearly closed the manifold
pressure, or vacuum if you prefer, prevents an adequate charge of air to be
drawn in for the necessary compression for diesel operation.  

You do know that there's a throttle plate?  

George

> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:22 PM
> To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> 
> I do understand entirely. You said:
> 
> "They are NOT compression ignition, a requirement for diesel, as I
> understand the term.
> They have a throttle plate that restricts the intake severely at low
> speeds,
> resulting
> in compression ratios far below those required for true diesel
> operation..."
> 
> So what you are saying is, clever MB engineering causes ignition to occur
> at
> lower compression than what is the "norm". Sound like a improvement on
> compression engine design  if you ask me.  Perhaps thats why I have 267000
> miles on
> my MB and it still runs like a top. But nevertheless, it is STILL
> compression ignition...So again I ask,
> If it is not compression that ignites the diesel (and my vegetable oil)
> than
> what does? Throttles
> ignite nothing.
> 
> Saying it is not a compression engine is absurd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:37:34 -0500
> >
> >I explained it but I guess you don't understand.  It isn't compression.
> >
> >George
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 9:21 PM
> > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > >
> > > If my MB doesnt ignite from a spark plug than what causes the
> ignition?
> > > Pre-chambers' warm the fuel but does not ignite it- Compression does.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 20:23:04 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Tom,
> > > >
> > > >What you say may be mostly true, but you left out compression
> ignition
> > > >which
> > > >they are not.  Whether it is truly diesel or not doesn't depend on my
> > > >opinion or yours.  I have no interest in Super Bowl.
> > > >
> > > >George Willer
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:04 PM
> > > > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > >
> > > > > I cant speak for the new MB's, but If the old mercedes are not
> true
> > > > > diesels
> > > > > then today isnt super bowl sunday. If it sounds like a diesel,
> >smells
> > > >like
> > > > > a
> > > > > diesel, takes diesel fuel, has lousy pickup and
> > > > > starts hard in the cold, has 260K + miles and still purrs, and can
> >run
> > > > > straight vegetable oil to boot, and doiesnt have spark plugs,then
> by
> > > > > gollly,
> > > > > its a diesel!.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> > > > > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:34:26 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I don't think any basic changes can be retroactive.  It's been
> >about
> > > 17
> > > > > >years since I drove any Mercedes regularly.  As far as I know the
> > > 190,
> > > > > >190DC, 200D, 220D, 240D, and 300D remain pre-chamber engines.  As
> > > best
> > > >I
> > > > > >can
> > > > > >tell they are NOT true diesels.  The only Mercedes I currently
> own
> >is
> > > a
> > > > > 450
> > > > > >SLC and it's too valuable to drive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >George Willer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 3:09 PM
> > > > > > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Pre chamber"?  Sounds like you are talking about a IDI
> engine.
> >I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > most of them are DI engines
> > > > > > > now....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > > > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> > > > > > > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > > > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:54:53 -0500
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Mike,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Maybe I was a bit hasty... maybe it's only the auto engines
> I'm
> > > >quite
> > > > > > > >familiar with that aren't true diesels.  They are NOT
> >compression
> > > > > > > ignition,
> > > > > > > >a requirement for diesel, as I understand the term.  They
> have
> >a
> > > > > >throttle
> > > > > > > >plate that restricts the intake severely at low speeds,
> >resulting
> > > >in
> > > > > > > >compression ratios far below those required for true diesel
> > > > > >operation...
> > > > > > > >possibly less than 3:1 at idle.  This throttle plate is not
> to
> >be
> > > > > > > confused
> > > > > > > >with the safety plate working like a check valve to prevent
> the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > >running backward.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >They require glow plugs for starting and a heated ball pin
> > > (acting
> > > > > like
> > > > > >a
> > > > > > > >constant glow plug) for continued running.  A broken ball pin
> > > will
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >cylinder unable to fire.  The injectors feed into a pre-
> chamber
> > > > > > > containing
> > > > > > > >both the glow plug and the heated ball pin.  The combustion
> > > begins
> > > > > >there
> > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > >is forced through an orfice into the main combustion chamber.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >It's understandable that many Mercedes owners aren't aware of
> >the
> > > >odd
> > > > > > > >ignition system since it's unlikely many even consider
> working
> >on
> > > > > them.
> > > > > > > Of
> > > > > > > >the eight I've owned 6 have been "diesels" and I've
> completely
> > > > > rebuilt
> > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > >of them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >George Willer
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > > > > > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sloane
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:50 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mercedes aren't true diesels? You have to explain that
> one,
> > > > > George!
> > > > > > > > > Mercedes Benz (aka Daimler Benz) probably makes more
> diesel
> > > > > engines
> > > > > > > > > (car, trucks, marine, industrial, etc.) than any other
> >single
> > > > > > > > > manufacturer in the world, and if they aren't "true"
> >diesels,
> > > it
> > > > > >will
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > a surprise to a LOT of owners/operators. :-)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > George Willer wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Mercedes has different ideas about diesel fuel...
> possibly
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > >they
> > > > > > > > > > aren't true diesels some other concoctions are
> suggested.
> > > >They
> > > > > >even
> > > > > > > > > endorse
> > > > > > > > > > adding a significant amount of gasoline to the diesel in
> > > cold
> > > > > > > weather
> > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > improve starting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > George Willer
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Mike Sloane
> > > > > > > > > Allamuchy NJ
> > > > > > > > > <mikesloane at verizon.net>
> > > > > > > > > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
> > > > > > > > > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound
> >smarter
> > > > > > > > > than optimists because they have so much evidence on their
> > > side.
> > > > > > > > > -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > AT mailing list
> > > > > > > > > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >AT mailing list
> > > > > > > >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > AT mailing list
> > > > > > > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > > > >
> > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > >AT mailing list
> > > > > >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > AT mailing list
> > > > > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >AT mailing list
> > > >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > AT mailing list
> > > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >AT mailing list
> >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at




More information about the AT mailing list