[AT] Scales for antique tractors???

Thu Jan 12 01:54:18 PST 2006

Charlie:

I don't know what the portable scale accuracy is but knowing the competitive
pullers a bit I think they would get upset if the scale was off by 25 to 50
lbs out of 10,000 lbs. Especially if it varied that much from try to try
with no other changes. Most clubs give a little tolerance but not much. 

I know we had a big blowup in the club a few years back about not using a
scale at all when a few pullers took completely dishonest and embarrassing
advantage of it. That caused a requirement for a scale to be used. That
upset the biggest cheater, the pulling chairman, and caused him to be
vindictive and would not allow any overage at all. Not even 1 pound. PERIOD!
No scale is that good but even more important not that consistent. He got
caught with his hand in the cookie jar. But it did show several who were
pushing beyond reasonable limits. Competition brings out the worst in
humans. 

All of the scales used in the NW part of the US for pulling are currently
full platform scales where one can drive on. I have not seen the individual
wheel or axle scales used for competitive pulling here. I don't know why
specifically. 

We do have a lot of logging operations around here and several certified
scales. Maybe we can find one that is no longer used or needed that will be
good enough. But it does have to be in close proximity to the actual pull.
Around here the most common method of weight verification is done directly
after each individual pull is completed. I'm embarrassed to admit that when
we were doing the measurements before the pulls the tractors suddenly
changed weight somehow just before the actual pull. A bit disgusting. 

I quit doing any kind of pulling due to all the cheating that was going on.
When I was doing some casual pulling I would take my tractor to a certified
scale and document exact fuel levels, tractor weights configuration and I
was able to get within just a few lbs on most pulling scales. I only once
pulled at 7,000 lbs with my JD 60 and I went to the show, changed the
configuration of the tractor from 6,000 lbs to 7,000 lbs based on what I had
learned on the certified scale and drove on to the local pulling scale in
Lynden, WA. The scale operator asked me for approximate settings before I
drove on. I said: "Set it at 7,000 lbs". Damned if it didn't balance right
on the number. That blew me away. Sometimes we get lucky. 

But then there were scales that were off by over 200 lbs or varied 50 to 100
lbs from one drive on to the next. That really causes problems. 

Dean A. Van Peursem
Snohomish, WA 98290

Forbidden fruits create many jams!

www.deerelegacy.com

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of charlie hill
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:28 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???

I don't believe that the portable scales the DOT uses would be accurate 
enough for tractor pulling.   When I used to drive a truck DOT would let you

slide on the first 1 or 2 thousand lbs of overweight because they knew  the 
portable scales were off because of being moved around and not being set up 
on a perfectly flat surface.   The scales I mentioned earlier that are used 
by loggers are a full platform scale but will only weigh one set of tandem 
wheels.  A tractor trailer would weigh the front axle then the pulling 
tandem then the trailer tandem and sum the weights.

Maybe if you got 4 of the individual wheel scales like DOT uses and placed 
them on a flat slab such that all the tractors could use them without the 
need to move them around you might get close enough to prevent a fight in 
the pits.   Tractor pullers are interested in getting exactly to the right 
weight.  Not plus or minus 10% or so.

Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Rhodes" <jlrhod at alltel.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???

> Dean, you may want to check with your local DOT, they use portable scales 
> to
> weight check trucks on the road, they carry them in the trunk of their
> cars..do a web check of "Toledo Scales" they are the big one around here,
> Jerry NW Ohio Trader
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???
>
>
>> Dean,
>>
>> Around here now they have really cracked down on over weight log trucks.
>> The result is the use of portable scales on the job site.  I don't know
> that
>> much about them but I suspect that a new industry has sprung up for
> building
>> portable scale units that don't require a lot of complicated setup at the
>> site.  You might want to check with some local timber companies.
>>
>> Charlie
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>> To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:13 AM
>> Subject: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???
>>
>>
>> > Our local antique tractor club is considering building a portable
> platform
>> > scale to weigh antique tractors and garden tractors for use during
> pulling
>> > competition.
>> >
>> > Having had some professional experience with load cells and associated
>> > electronics and observing some rather erratic scales at various antique
>> > tractor shows in the area I would like to offer other alternative
> options
>> > for the club to consider before venturing into a possibly ill advised
>> > building adventure. There are scales available to rent if the risk of
> the
>> > urge to "do-it ourselves" is properly recognized and tempered.  But I'm
>> > not
>> > sure that can be controlled.
>> >
>> > If there were appropriately skilled scale personnel in the club I would
> be
>> > less concerned. But, what I see is a possibility of "we can build
> anything
>> > and make it work" syndrome developing. Not recognizing some of the
>> > inherent
>> > risks and financial exposure.  Therefore, I am soliciting advice from
> any
>> > others on the list who may have technical advice and/or experience in
> such
>> > an endeavor.
>> >
>> > My gut tells me there are used, commercial, ready made solutions that
> have
>> > had good design methods used and are probably less expensive than the
> cost
>> > of doing it ourselves.  MY guess is that there may be surplus platform
>> > scales available that no longer fit the needs of today's commercial
>> > requirements but would be totally adequate for the clubs needs.
>> >
>> > I know we do not need certifiable weights and measures accuracy
> traceable
>> > to
>> > the National Bureau of Standards. :-) However, some reasonable level of
>> > accuracy is required but consistency is probably even more important.
>> >
>> > My guess is the scale probably will need to weigh up to 12,000 - 15,000
>> > lbs
>> > but also weigh 500 lbs reasonably accurate as well. That may be more
>> > difficult than expected. The inconsistencies I have seen on some of the
>> > scales used at local tractor shows has been largely due to temperature
>> > variations and loading position sensitivities. These all can be
>> > compensated
>> > for with a good design and appropriate electronics. So far I don't see
>> > that
>> > kind of collective design skill within the club personnel and therefore
> I
>> > see the us heading for the wonderful experience of kaleidoscope hell
>> > (tweak
>> > it until it works) and severe cost overruns. I do see a significant
> level
>> > of
>> > naivety. :-) I currently see the potential of "We can do it for $1500
>> > turning into a $5,000 doesn't work so good end result".
>> >
>> > So... I'm looking for ideas on where one would go to find a low cost
>> > commercial solution. I would think there would be used commercial 
>> > scales
>> > available on the market that might fit both our technical requirements
> and
>> > simultaneously fit our financial budget. I may be wrong.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions would be appreciated. Help???
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dean A. Van Peursem
>> > Snohomish, WA 98290
>> >
>> > Forbidden fruits create many jams!
>> >
>> > www.deerelegacy.com
>> >
>> > http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > AT mailing list
>> > Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> >
>> >
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
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>
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