[AT] Scales for antique tractors???

Thu Jan 12 08:27:53 PST 2006

Yep that was exactly my point Dean.  I just don't know how accurate those 
one wheel at a time portable scales are but not close enough unless you 
could nail them down in one spot.

Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:54 AM
Subject: RE: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???

> Charlie:
>
> I don't know what the portable scale accuracy is but knowing the 
> competitive
> pullers a bit I think they would get upset if the scale was off by 25 to 
> 50
> lbs out of 10,000 lbs. Especially if it varied that much from try to try
> with no other changes. Most clubs give a little tolerance but not much.
>
> I know we had a big blowup in the club a few years back about not using a
> scale at all when a few pullers took completely dishonest and embarrassing
> advantage of it. That caused a requirement for a scale to be used. That
> upset the biggest cheater, the pulling chairman, and caused him to be
> vindictive and would not allow any overage at all. Not even 1 pound. 
> PERIOD!
> No scale is that good but even more important not that consistent. He got
> caught with his hand in the cookie jar. But it did show several who were
> pushing beyond reasonable limits. Competition brings out the worst in
> humans.
>
> All of the scales used in the NW part of the US for pulling are currently
> full platform scales where one can drive on. I have not seen the 
> individual
> wheel or axle scales used for competitive pulling here. I don't know why
> specifically.
>
> We do have a lot of logging operations around here and several certified
> scales. Maybe we can find one that is no longer used or needed that will 
> be
> good enough. But it does have to be in close proximity to the actual pull.
> Around here the most common method of weight verification is done directly
> after each individual pull is completed. I'm embarrassed to admit that 
> when
> we were doing the measurements before the pulls the tractors suddenly
> changed weight somehow just before the actual pull. A bit disgusting.
>
> I quit doing any kind of pulling due to all the cheating that was going 
> on.
> When I was doing some casual pulling I would take my tractor to a 
> certified
> scale and document exact fuel levels, tractor weights configuration and I
> was able to get within just a few lbs on most pulling scales. I only once
> pulled at 7,000 lbs with my JD 60 and I went to the show, changed the
> configuration of the tractor from 6,000 lbs to 7,000 lbs based on what I 
> had
> learned on the certified scale and drove on to the local pulling scale in
> Lynden, WA. The scale operator asked me for approximate settings before I
> drove on. I said: "Set it at 7,000 lbs". Damned if it didn't balance right
> on the number. That blew me away. Sometimes we get lucky.
>
> But then there were scales that were off by over 200 lbs or varied 50 to 
> 100
> lbs from one drive on to the next. That really causes problems.
>
> Dean A. Van Peursem
> Snohomish, WA 98290
>
> Forbidden fruits create many jams!
>
> www.deerelegacy.com
>
> http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of charlie hill
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:28 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???
>
> I don't believe that the portable scales the DOT uses would be accurate
> enough for tractor pulling.   When I used to drive a truck DOT would let 
> you
>
> slide on the first 1 or 2 thousand lbs of overweight because they knew 
> the
> portable scales were off because of being moved around and not being set 
> up
> on a perfectly flat surface.   The scales I mentioned earlier that are 
> used
> by loggers are a full platform scale but will only weigh one set of tandem
> wheels.  A tractor trailer would weigh the front axle then the pulling
> tandem then the trailer tandem and sum the weights.
>
> Maybe if you got 4 of the individual wheel scales like DOT uses and placed
> them on a flat slab such that all the tractors could use them without the
> need to move them around you might get close enough to prevent a fight in
> the pits.   Tractor pullers are interested in getting exactly to the right
> weight.  Not plus or minus 10% or so.
>
> Charlie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jerry Rhodes" <jlrhod at alltel.net>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???
>
>
>> Dean, you may want to check with your local DOT, they use portable scales
>> to
>> weight check trucks on the road, they carry them in the trunk of their
>> cars..do a web check of "Toledo Scales" they are the big one around here,
>> Jerry NW Ohio Trader
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???
>>
>>
>>> Dean,
>>>
>>> Around here now they have really cracked down on over weight log trucks.
>>> The result is the use of portable scales on the job site.  I don't know
>> that
>>> much about them but I suspect that a new industry has sprung up for
>> building
>>> portable scale units that don't require a lot of complicated setup at 
>>> the
>>> site.  You might want to check with some local timber companies.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>>> To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:13 AM
>>> Subject: [AT] Scales for antique tractors???
>>>
>>>
>>> > Our local antique tractor club is considering building a portable
>> platform
>>> > scale to weigh antique tractors and garden tractors for use during
>> pulling
>>> > competition.
>>> >
>>> > Having had some professional experience with load cells and associated
>>> > electronics and observing some rather erratic scales at various 
>>> > antique
>>> > tractor shows in the area I would like to offer other alternative
>> options
>>> > for the club to consider before venturing into a possibly ill advised
>>> > building adventure. There are scales available to rent if the risk of
>> the
>>> > urge to "do-it ourselves" is properly recognized and tempered.  But 
>>> > I'm
>>> > not
>>> > sure that can be controlled.
>>> >
>>> > If there were appropriately skilled scale personnel in the club I 
>>> > would
>> be
>>> > less concerned. But, what I see is a possibility of "we can build
>> anything
>>> > and make it work" syndrome developing. Not recognizing some of the
>>> > inherent
>>> > risks and financial exposure.  Therefore, I am soliciting advice from
>> any
>>> > others on the list who may have technical advice and/or experience in
>> such
>>> > an endeavor.
>>> >
>>> > My gut tells me there are used, commercial, ready made solutions that
>> have
>>> > had good design methods used and are probably less expensive than the
>> cost
>>> > of doing it ourselves.  MY guess is that there may be surplus platform
>>> > scales available that no longer fit the needs of today's commercial
>>> > requirements but would be totally adequate for the clubs needs.
>>> >
>>> > I know we do not need certifiable weights and measures accuracy
>> traceable
>>> > to
>>> > the National Bureau of Standards. :-) However, some reasonable level 
>>> > of
>>> > accuracy is required but consistency is probably even more important.
>>> >
>>> > My guess is the scale probably will need to weigh up to 12,000 - 
>>> > 15,000
>>> > lbs
>>> > but also weigh 500 lbs reasonably accurate as well. That may be more
>>> > difficult than expected. The inconsistencies I have seen on some of 
>>> > the
>>> > scales used at local tractor shows has been largely due to temperature
>>> > variations and loading position sensitivities. These all can be
>>> > compensated
>>> > for with a good design and appropriate electronics. So far I don't see
>>> > that
>>> > kind of collective design skill within the club personnel and 
>>> > therefore
>> I
>>> > see the us heading for the wonderful experience of kaleidoscope hell
>>> > (tweak
>>> > it until it works) and severe cost overruns. I do see a significant
>> level
>>> > of
>>> > naivety. :-) I currently see the potential of "We can do it for $1500
>>> > turning into a $5,000 doesn't work so good end result".
>>> >
>>> > So... I'm looking for ideas on where one would go to find a low cost
>>> > commercial solution. I would think there would be used commercial
>>> > scales
>>> > available on the market that might fit both our technical requirements
>> and
>>> > simultaneously fit our financial budget. I may be wrong.
>>> >
>>> > Any suggestions would be appreciated. Help???
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dean A. Van Peursem
>>> > Snohomish, WA 98290
>>> >
>>> > Forbidden fruits create many jams!
>>> >
>>> > www.deerelegacy.com
>>> >
>>> > http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > AT mailing list
>>> > Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
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