[AT] Tractor battery
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Mon Nov 15 18:23:56 PST 2021
Hi Dennis, thanks for the response, mine is a Tier 3 diesel engine that
is not electronically controlled as far as I know. Can I do any damage
by trying to start it without the battery installed? I will follow up
with the dealer tomorrow as well. I will also insulate the +/- leads so
they don't touch anything.
Thank-you,
Mike M
On 11/15/2021 7:12 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Jumping a diesel w/o battery depends on if you have any electrons that
> control or turn on things like fuel solenoids, etc. Old engines with
> manual fuel shut off’s and mechanical injectors should work fine.
> Newer ones with more electrons controlling stuff will not run w/o a
> battery somehow hooked up.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 6:06 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>> Tore out the battery today, tons of corrosion, to the point that
>> the positive nut for the clamp was almost reduced by 75%, I had to
>> pound it off. I thought I had things cleaned up but it appears that
>> was not the case. I'll go battery shopping tomorrow, and hopefully I
>> can find something close. Meanwhile I have the battery case coated in
>> baking soda, to help neutralize the leaking battery acid. Question
>> for the list can I jump a diesel, without the battery installed? I'm
>> running out of time in Michigan, and all our water is shut off except
>> the barn frost free.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 11/15/2021 3:37 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>
>>> Not a problem, I get to deal with these things a lot. At this point
>>> even doing simple repairs are becoming hard if not impossible for
>>> the average DIYer due to the way the companies are building them.
>>> There are some out there now that have “sealed drivelines” where
>>> they have no dipsticks or easily accessible fill plugs to even do
>>> routine service and you need a scan tool to even check fluid levels!
>>>
>>> *From: *Stephen Offiler <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 5:28 AM
>>> *To: *Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>
>>> Extremely useful and informative for modern vehicles, thanks SteveW!
>>>
>>> Steve O.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:39 PM Steve W.
>>> <swilliams268 at frontier.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Whatever you do, do NOT use the old “unhook the battery to see
>>> if it stays running” test that used to be done. On any vehicles
>>> newer than about 1998 that is almost a guaranteed way to destroy
>>> the charging system. On most cars and trucks built from there on
>>> up, the voltage regulator is part of the engines control unit.
>>> Those are not cheap to replace. Another no-no is to jump start a
>>> newer vehicle without charging the battery or leaving a jump
>>> pack on it, many of the newer vehicles will read the bad battery
>>> and crank the voltage and amperage way up to try to compensate
>>> for the low battery, that can kill the alternator, and if the
>>> battery is failing it can blow it up from the excessive
>>> charging. I can’t count how many vehicles I had to repair once
>>> the bug measures let people start using their cars again, after
>>> they were parked for 3-4 months.
>>>
>>> Now if you are one of the “fortunate” who has one of the over
>>> engineered modern rolling computers made from about 2017 and up,
>>> Check really close in service information before you replace an
>>> old battery, many of those need to have the battery initialized
>>> into the system because the ECU has adjusted itself as the old
>>> battery wore out, you need to tell it that you are installing
>>> the new battery and what it is in CCA and type, be it a flooded
>>> cell, AGM, Lithium or other as they all use slightly different
>>> charging routines and it’s easy to cook a battery if it’s set up
>>> wrong. To go with that, many of the parts stores offer
>>> installation as long as you have one that is reasonably easy,
>>> there are quite a few that are not due to the battery locations.
>>> OH and for the import owners, be sure which battery you actually
>>> need as many of the high dollar brands use 2 or three different
>>> batteries scattered around the vehicle. Mercedes for instance
>>> has one in the trunk, one under the hood and one tucked in
>>> behind the dash!
>>>
>>> For those of you who still want to DIY it, here is another tip.
>>> On cars that have lots of options or anything 2017 and up, the
>>> security systems can be a royal pain if you remove the battery,
>>> they can lock you out of everything so you end up towing it to a
>>> dealer to have it flashed back. The way around this is simple.
>>> Find the feed and ground lugs for the fuse box or if it has them
>>> the jumper terminals mounted out in the open. Now grab a power
>>> supply or a fully charged battery and connect it up to those, in
>>> the case of using a spare battery, connect it, start the engine
>>> and let it run for 20 minutes or so, that will equalize the
>>> charge in the add-on battery, verify that the charging circuit
>>> is working as well, simply by measuring the voltage with the
>>> engine off, then again with it running. With a power supply (NOT
>>> A COMMON CHARGER) you just dial it up to the voltage the service
>>> info says or at least 13 volts. Now you can disconnect the main
>>> battery without losing any settings or programming because the
>>> ECU never sees it disconnected. Just remember that the Positive
>>> terminal will still be hot when you do this, my SOP is to pull
>>> the ground side, then take a heavy rubber/plastic baggy and as
>>> soon as the pos. comes of it goes into the bag to keep it safe.
>>>
>>> *From: *Henry Miller <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com>
>>> *Sent: *Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:23 PM
>>> *To: *at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AT] Tractor battery
>>>
>>> Be careful with modern cars, some cycle the alternator on and
>>> off. Weird when driving to see the voltmeter not hold constant.
>>> (This was a rental car, I almost turned around for one that
>>> worked before I figured it out )
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Henry Miller
>>>
>>> hank at millerfarm.com
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, at 16:37, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>
>>> > Quick check is just battery voltage not running versus
>>> running. If your
>>>
>>> > alternator is putting out something, voltage is higher when
>>> running. If
>>>
>>> > the alternator is bad, voltage is close to the same or a bit
>>> lower when
>>>
>>> > running (probably lower because the battery gave up some juice
>>> to crank it
>>>
>>> > over). If you are wondering if the alternator is somewhere in
>>> between
>>>
>>> > healthy and dead, turn on as many electrical loads as you can
>>> while
>>>
>>> > running. Alternator should handle those loads and still give
>>> the battery
>>>
>>> > terminals something over 13.5V. (Because it is supplying
>>> other things in
>>>
>>> > addition to battery recharge, you may not see the whole 14-ish
>>> volts, but
>>>
>>> > it must be greater than 12.6-ish to be pushing charge into the
>>> battery.
>>>
>>> > Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > SO
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >> Thanks Steve, it there a way to test whats coming out the
>>> alternator?
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> Mike M
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> On 11/14/2021 2:15 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> Hi Mike:
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> I've heard baking soda can neutralize the acid but I'd
>>> probably ask the
>>>
>>> >> Google for backup on that.
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> A good range for battery terminal voltage engine-running is
>>> 13.6V-14.4V.
>>>
>>> >> Some modern voltage regulators have temperature compensation,
>>> dropping
>>>
>>> >> voltage in high temperature conditions (when it is easier to
>>> charge and
>>>
>>> >> easier to overdo it) and raising voltage in the cold (when
>>> they're not as
>>>
>>> >> eager to accept charge). Not all alternators do this, but I
>>> just wanted to
>>>
>>> >> explain why there's such a fairly wide range.
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> SO
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 2:03 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >>> Tough to say Steve, I do know that I filled some of the
>>> battery chambers
>>>
>>> >>> with distilled water because some seemed a little low, and
>>> it leaked
>>>
>>> >>> battery acid for a few days. whats the best way to clean
>>> that up? I know
>>>
>>> >>> it's very caustic. What should the voltage be across the
>>> terminals with the
>>>
>>> >>> engine running?
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> >>> Mike M
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>> On 10/28/2021 6:08 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>> The question is, what happened? Is your alternator not
>>> charging?
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>> SO
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:30 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Whew!! got it back for now. It started right up and the
>>> terminals where
>>>
>>> >>>> shiny as new, ground as well. Voltage across the terminals
>>> was 13.3 and
>>>
>>> >>>> climbing. I have the trickle charger on it overnight, and
>>> will give it a
>>>
>>> >>>> good workout tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 1:22 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> When I checked the voltage between the posts with a digital
>>> volt meter,
>>>
>>> >>>> I only got 11.5 volts, I left the charger on overnight, and
>>> it's now up to
>>>
>>> >>>> 13 volts, so I switched to a maintainer. It's raining here
>>> today so I'm
>>>
>>> >>>> leaving it on the charger, and yes I will check the grounds
>>> for sure!
>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks for the advice to all. I'll let you know how it
>>> turns out.
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> >>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> On 10/27/2021 7:54 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> I wonder how many thousands of times farmer has typed that
>>> over the
>>>
>>> >>>> years!
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> When Mike said it only clicked when jumped, that simply
>>> says bad
>>>
>>> >>>> connection. I’m not sure why the focus on a bad battery
>>> just yet.
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Steve O.
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> On Oct 27, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Indiana Robinson
>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> >>>> <robinson46176 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>
>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>
>>> >>>> Check the grounds.
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> .
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:22 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> Makes me wish for my old tractor and I could back it up
>>> onto a hill,
>>>
>>> >>>>> let it get rolling and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> On 10/26/2021 11:46 PM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> Try jumping it, but leave the cables connected for 20-30
>>> minutes before
>>>
>>> >>>>> you attempt a start. Even if you’ve had the charger on all
>>> night. Even with
>>>
>>> >>>>> a dead battery it should start and run. It may die when
>>> you disconnect the
>>>
>>> >>>>> cables, but if it doesn’t, it should run, but the battery
>>> probably won’t
>>>
>>> >>>>> take a charge.
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> Carl
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>> So my tractor battery went dead overnight. It's an Exide
>>> Select
>>>
>>> >>>>>> Performance battery, with 925 CCA model 31XHE with 180
>>> minutes of
>>>
>>> >>>>>> reserve capacity. I tried jumping it with my truck but no
>>> luck it would
>>>
>>> >>>>>> just click. I started looking online, and about fell out
>>> of my chair.
>>>
>>> >>>>>> Prices started at $300 and and most are out of stock.
>>> Does anyone have
>>>
>>> >>>>>> any good sources for batteries? It was manufactured in
>>> 2014, so I guess
>>>
>>> >>>>>> the clock just ran out. Any ideas would be greatly
>>> appreciated. Is
>>>
>>> >>>>>> there
>>>
>>> >>>>>> anyway to service it, or rejuvenate it?
>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> >>>>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
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>>> >>>> --
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>>> >>>> --
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>>> >>>>
>>>
>>> >>>> Francis Robinson
>>>
>>> >>>> aka "farmer"
>>>
>>> >>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>
>>> >>>> robinson46176 at gmail.com
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