[AT] Air conditioning problems In my parts getter...

[Cecil Bearden]

Steve:

I read up on using propane as a refrigerant and it needs some isobutane 
for some reason.  There is a formula on the internet to make it.  You 
have to get some propane lighter fuel and inject it onto the tank of 
propane to get the mix right.  I have read that rail car refrigeration 
systems use propane.  It is accepted as a refrigerant in non automotive 
systems...  It has about the right pressures to work as a refrigerant...

It sure is funny that there is no way to save the planet and maintain a 
decent comfort level without breaking the bank...

Cecil

On 6/12/2021 10:55 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>
>>
>> R1234y, and it is expensive.  I imagine it is developed by Dupont and 
>> they need to get their money back.  The patents ran out on 134, so 
>> they had to bring in something expensive again. It is also flammable, 
>> So, why couldn't propane be usuable for refrigerant??  It is also 
>> flammable..  But a lot cheaper....
>>
>> Cecil
>
> Now Cecil, you can't say that, they brought out R1234YF to save the 
> planet for the little children.  Just because the patent expired on 
> 134A and Dupont was pushing to replace it with the newly patented 
> material had nothing to do with it. Shame on you for thinking they 
> only want the money, it's to save the planet... LOL
>
> This question actually came up at one of the classes on this crap a 
> while back, the "Save the planet" answer was the party line, but most 
> of us had been through the same BS back when R-12 was dropped and 
> commented that at least then Dupont was honest and said that they were 
> pushing R134a due to the patent issue.
>
> The one trick is that if the price on the 1234yf doesn't drop a lot, 
> there are likely going to be many conversions to R134a. If you pull 
> the R1234yf out, fully flush the system and swap out the drier to be 
> sure you got all the oil you can recharge with PAG and R134a and have 
> the system work just fine as the two are almost identical in 
> operational characteristics.
>
> Just don't get caught because the EPA has tagged R1234yf differently, 
> it's now considered as part of the emissions system on the vehicles 
> that use it because the companies were handed carbon offsets for using 
> it. So swapping it out is now a violation of the Clean Air Act.
> The fines start at about $10,000.00 after they are done dragging you 
> through the system.
>
> As for propane, there was an Australian, Ian MaClaine-Cross pushing 
> his hydrocarbon based replacement as a drop in for R12 who managed to 
> blow himself up on camera, during a demonstration showing just how 
> safe it was.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0K1WPCWm2k
>
> The resulting charges over it -
> https://vasa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2005-May.pdf
>
>
> Other MACS demonstrations of the same type -
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO47SzxJmV0
>
>