[AT] Cattle farmers

Cecil Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Tue Aug 31 06:08:55 PDT 2021 

Carl:

That poison is prussic acid.  Mistakenly called nitrate poisoning.  The 
acid works against the hemoglobin in the blood causing the oxygen not to 
combine and the animal ends up suffocating.   It works pretty fast too. 
   You can see the prussic acid at the joints in the grass where the 
leaves come off the stem.  It is a white powdery substance.  Heat stress 
causes the acid.  if you cut is while it is growing it is not a 
problem.   If it gets a rain and grows some after the stress it is not a 
problem.   Funny thing is horses can stand more of the prussic acid than 
cattle can..

Cecil

On 8/31/2021 8:01 AM, Carl Szabelski wrote:
>  My understanding of Johnsongrass is that it is good forage, except 
> during the winter if it gets stressed due to extreme cold. Then it 
> developes some kind of poison that can make cows sick. Don’t believe 
> it actually kills the cow. Will see if I can find something online.
>
> Carl
>
> On Monday, August 30, 2021, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net 
> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>
>     Mark:
>
>     I bale as much Johnson grass as I can get.  Cut while it is less
>     than 2 ft tall it is one of the best forages around.  55 years ago
>     during a drought we put 200 acres of river bottom land that had
>     grown up 10 ft tall in johnson grass in the silo.  It was all we
>     could find.  We got a shower on it a week later and it re sprouted
>     and we baled nearly 40 bales per acre off it.
>
>     I know how it stays with the land, but if you keep cutting it or
>     just graze it it will die out..   In the mean time my cows love it..
>
>     Cecil
>
>     On 8/30/2021 6:13 PM, Mark Johnson wrote:
>>
>>     Cecil:
>>
>>     There is a chance that Johnsongrass that has gone to seed can
>>     survive a trip through a ruminant...which could spread the stuff
>>     to the other side of that pasture fence! As long as your horses
>>     keep it mowed down before it goes to seed you should be OK. It is
>>     one of the most 'robust' grass seeds in terms of its ability to
>>     lie dormant in the soil for 10 years or more (most grass seeds
>>     will either sprout or rot after no more than 2-3 years), and
>>     survive animal digestive systems.
>>
>>     I spent a summer during my college years working for a weed
>>     science professor who specialized in perennial weeds, most
>>     especially johnsongrass. At the time, the stuff was only found
>>     about as far north as Indianapolis - all our research fields were
>>     in deep southern Indiana. These days, johnsongrass is adapting to
>>     the climate and is seen much further north.
>>
>>     Mark J
>>
>>     On 8/30/2021 8:07 AM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>
>>>     My Dad grew up working horses to farm.  He always said you did
>>>     not feed  alfalfa to a horse that was going to be worked.  They
>>>     would get too hot.  They only fed alfalfa in the winter.   I
>>>     sold horse hay for many years before I got cow that eat more
>>>     than I can raise.  I had people coming from 15 mi away to get my
>>>     hay.  I baled hay for a couple of "horse" people around here and
>>>     they would wait until the hay was dry as broom straw before
>>>     baling.  Many times I baled mine the same day it was cut.  I
>>>     still do if I can get my old joints to keep calm..!!    Nearly
>>>     every buyer would remark how my hay was always so green when
>>>     opened up and their horses would eat it like it was candy.  I
>>>     had one lady who called and returned 4 round bales because her 3
>>>     horses ate it up in 3 days.  She said she could not afford to
>>>     feed that much hay!!!!
>>>
>>>     Horse people are a funny lot.  My 2 horses are 15 and 11 yrs
>>>     old, and they eat anything I drop over the fence.  I cut the
>>>     weeds off their field with a swather and baled it to keep the
>>>     weeds from going to seed.   I baled it very very green.  Big
>>>     juicy weeds, 4 ft tall.  2 weeks later they were eating the
>>>     bales where they sat!!!    Moswt horse people don't want johnson
>>>     grass as they say is is bad for horses.  I had a vet tell me
>>>     that a horse could handle more Johnson grass and the prussic
>>>     acid that forms during heat stress than cattle could.  I noticed
>>>     that my horses keep the johnson grass ate down as far as they
>>>     can reach over the fence...   I bale it with the TS110 and now
>>>     the new 504R Vermeer, then haul it in with the old 5000 Ford
>>>     with the hyd bale trailer behind.   The best thing I can find on
>>>     the new baler is it will wrap a 12in diameter bale.  I can wrap
>>>     one like the old Allis roto Baler.   Net wrap though...
>>>
>>>
>>>     Cecil
>>>
>>>     On 8/30/2021 6:00 AM, Indiana Robinson wrote:
>>>>     I wouldn't know why it wouldn't be OK. As a late first cutting
>>>>     it will naturally be a little stemy but it will still be hay. I
>>>>     have seen beef cattle in particular winter through on some
>>>>     remarkably rough hay. Much of what is feedable is often just
>>>>     the perception by people of what is good hay. I've seen people
>>>>     that would turn up their noses at decent hay on a good hay year
>>>>     but in a shortage of hay year (or a tight wallet year) they
>>>>     would feed thistles and scrub brush and be glad to get it. Son
>>>>     Scott once had a girlfriend that kept her horses here. I knew
>>>>     money was tight so I offered to give her some fairly decent hay
>>>>     I still had in the loft. She turned it down saying that her
>>>>     primary horse was a show horse and he couldn't eat that rough
>>>>     hay. I pointed over to the corner of the fence line and said
>>>>     "He ate that damned gate"...  :-)
>>>>     Our own little private herd of 7 useless but loved equine
>>>>     creatures (mostly rescues) normally winter over just running
>>>>     about 65 acres of corn stalks and soybean stubble and usually
>>>>     get fat on them. When the weather gets really bad we do usually
>>>>     stick in a round bale, often something son Scott didn't try to
>>>>     sell because it didn't tie right or was miss-shaped.
>>>>     Most of the time if the world is encased in ice or deep snow we
>>>>     feed a few alfalfa cubes. About a pound per horse, hand-fed
>>>>     like treats late in the day seems to make a good difference in
>>>>     keeping them warm overnight. They have shelter but seldom use
>>>>     it. A couple of semi-recent old and starved rescues do get
>>>>     special feeding. They are getting pretty slick looking now.
>>>>     To be on topic... Any time I take an old tractor out in the
>>>>     pastures they all have to gather around it and study it
>>>>     carefully. Not sure why, none of them know how to drive...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 11:52 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com
>>>>     <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Hi all, I have a question. I have a guy that bales my
>>>>         field, for his
>>>>         cattle. I just give it to him, because it saves me the
>>>>         trouble of brush
>>>>         hogging it, and it doesn't go to waste. It's  been so wet in SE
>>>>         Michigan, he hasn't been able to get on it it yet, He's
>>>>         only baled 40 of
>>>>         the 200 acres he normally bales. At this point of the year,
>>>>         is the hay
>>>>         even any good?
>>>>
>>>>         Thanks,
>>>>         Mike M
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     -- 
>>>>     -- 
>>>>
>>>>     Francis Robinson
>>>>     aka "farmer"
>>>>     Central Indiana USA
>>>>     robinson46176 at gmail.com <mailto:robinson46176 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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