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<p>Carl:</p>
<p>That poison is prussic acid. Mistakenly called nitrate
poisoning. The acid works against the hemoglobin in the blood
causing the oxygen not to combine and the animal ends up
suffocating. It works pretty fast too. You can see the prussic
acid at the joints in the grass where the leaves come off the
stem. It is a white powdery substance. Heat stress causes the
acid. if you cut is while it is growing it is not a problem. If
it gets a rain and grows some after the stress it is not a
problem. Funny thing is horses can stand more of the prussic
acid than cattle can.. <br>
</p>
<p>Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/31/2021 8:01 AM, Carl Szabelski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALdF5zeH6HOG_ZPj3Jf8wV1DNJoo8jxEd+xtugLk4Fcrc2atRA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
My understanding of Johnsongrass is that it is good forage,
except during the winter if it gets stressed due to extreme cold.
Then it developes some kind of poison that can make cows sick.
Don’t believe it actually kills the cow. Will see if I can find
something online.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carl<br>
<br>
On Monday, August 30, 2021, Cecil Bearden <<a
href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net" moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Mark:</p>
<p>I bale as much Johnson grass as I can get. Cut while it
is less than 2 ft tall it is one of the best forages
around. 55 years ago during a drought we put 200 acres of
river bottom land that had grown up 10 ft tall in johnson
grass in the silo. It was all we could find. We got a
shower on it a week later and it re sprouted and we baled
nearly 40 bales per acre off it.</p>
<p>I know how it stays with the land, but if you keep
cutting it or just graze it it will die out.. In the
mean time my cows love it..<br>
</p>
<p>Cecil<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/30/2021 6:13 PM, Mark Johnson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Cecil:</p>
<p>There is a chance that Johnsongrass that has gone to
seed can survive a trip through a ruminant...which could
spread the stuff to the other side of that pasture
fence! As long as your horses keep it mowed down before
it goes to seed you should be OK. It is one of the most
'robust' grass seeds in terms of its ability to lie
dormant in the soil for 10 years or more (most grass
seeds will either sprout or rot after no more than 2-3
years), and survive animal digestive systems.<br>
</p>
<p>I spent a summer during my college years working for a
weed science professor who specialized in perennial
weeds, most especially johnsongrass. At the time, the
stuff was only found about as far north as Indianapolis
- all our research fields were in deep southern Indiana.
These days, johnsongrass is adapting to the climate and
is seen much further north.<br>
</p>
<p>Mark J<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/30/2021 8:07 AM, Cecil Bearden wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>My Dad grew up working horses to farm. He always
said you did not feed alfalfa to a horse that was
going to be worked. They would get too hot. They
only fed alfalfa in the winter. I sold horse hay for
many years before I got cow that eat more than I can
raise. I had people coming from 15 mi away to get my
hay. I baled hay for a couple of "horse" people
around here and they would wait until the hay was dry
as broom straw before baling. Many times I baled mine
the same day it was cut. I still do if I can get my
old joints to keep calm..!! Nearly every buyer
would remark how my hay was always so green when
opened up and their horses would eat it like it was
candy. I had one lady who called and returned 4 round
bales because her 3 horses ate it up in 3 days. She
said she could not afford to feed that much hay!!!!
<br>
</p>
<p>Horse people are a funny lot. My 2 horses are 15 and
11 yrs old, and they eat anything I drop over the
fence. I cut the weeds off their field with a swather
and baled it to keep the weeds from going to seed. I
baled it very very green. Big juicy weeds, 4 ft
tall. 2 weeks later they were eating the bales where
they sat!!! Moswt horse people don't want johnson
grass as they say is is bad for horses. I had a vet
tell me that a horse could handle more Johnson grass
and the prussic acid that forms during heat stress
than cattle could. I noticed that my horses keep the
johnson grass ate down as far as they can reach over
the fence... I bale it with the TS110 and now the
new 504R Vermeer, then haul it in with the old 5000
Ford with the hyd bale trailer behind. The best
thing I can find on the new baler is it will wrap a
12in diameter bale. I can wrap one like the old Allis
roto Baler. Net wrap though...</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Cecil<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/30/2021 6:00 AM, Indiana Robinson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I wouldn't know why it wouldn't be OK. As a
late first cutting it will naturally be a little
stemy but it will still be hay. I have seen beef
cattle in particular winter through on some
remarkably rough hay. Much of what is feedable is
often just the perception by people of what is
good hay. I've seen people that would turn up
their noses at decent hay on a good hay year but
in a shortage of hay year (or a tight wallet year)
they would feed thistles and scrub brush and be
glad to get it. Son Scott once had a girlfriend
that kept her horses here. I knew money was tight
so I offered to give her some fairly decent hay I
still had in the loft. She turned it down saying
that her primary horse was a show horse and he
couldn't eat that rough hay. I pointed over to the
corner of the fence line and said "He ate that
damned gate"... :-)</div>
<div>Our own little private herd of 7 useless but
loved equine creatures (mostly rescues) normally
winter over just running about 65 acres of corn
stalks and soybean stubble and usually get fat on
them. When the weather gets really bad we do
usually stick in a round bale, often something son
Scott didn't try to sell because it didn't tie
right or was miss-shaped.</div>
<div>Most of the time if the world is encased in ice
or deep snow we feed a few alfalfa cubes. About a
pound per horse, hand-fed like treats late in the
day seems to make a good difference in keeping
them warm overnight. They have shelter but seldom
use it. A couple of semi-recent old and starved
rescues do get special feeding. They are getting
pretty slick looking now.</div>
<div>To be on topic... Any time I take an old
tractor out in the pastures they all have to
gather around it and study it carefully. Not sure
why, none of them know how to drive...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 29,
2021 at 11:52 PM Mike M <<a
href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">meulenms@gmx.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi all, I have
a question. I have a guy that bales my field, for
his<br>
cattle. I just give it to him, because it saves me
the trouble of brush<br>
hogging it, and it doesn't go to waste. It's been
so wet in SE<br>
Michigan, he hasn't been able to get on it it yet,
He's only baled 40 of<br>
the 200 acres he normally bales. At this point of
the year, is the hay<br>
even any good?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Mike M<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-- <br>
<br>
Francis Robinson<br>
aka "farmer"<br>
Central Indiana USA<br>
<a href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">robinson46176@gmail.com</a><br>
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