I didn't realize it until I looked at that chart again, but the faster 5th gear transmission also raised the speeds of the first through fourth gears, which would reduce pulling power.Brian
-------- Original message --------From: Mark Johnson <markjohnson100 at centurylink.net> Date: 5/21/20 8:08 AM (GMT-05:00) To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com Subject: Re: [AT] Starter installation trick on the later two cylinder JD Tractors.
Brian...thanks for the information on 730's and transmissions. As
best I can recall, one of our 730s had the standard 6-speed
transmission and the other had the optional 5th gear. The one with
the standard gears was always the better puller in heavy plowing -
even in the same gear ratio, but it had some transmission wear and
noticeably more gear noise than the other.
Story time: Twice during my teenage years I had to have a 730
towed to the shed because of a steering related failure...and I
had another run-in with steering troubles as you'll soon see.
The first happened while I was disking with our 730 that had, for
a time, an aftermarket wide front end...as I was turning around at
the end of the field, one of the steering links connecting the tie
rod to the wheels broke, causing the front wheels to splay in
opposite directions. It's very hard to steer like that, and I shut
it down and walked to the house for help. Not long after that, we
abandoned the aftermarket front end and put the Roll-O-Matic back
in place.
A couple of years later, on our "other" 730 - I was bush-hogging
pasture, and crossed a drainage ditch with the mower raised...now,
it's important to note that this particular 730 was a bit light on
the front end - only one weight set instead of two, and the mower
in question was a big, beefy 7-foot brand-name BushHog...so when I
came up out of the ditch, the front end left the ground by about
6". Unfortunately, what I discovered at that moment was that the
steering spindle was broken about 2" above the case of the
Roll-O-Matic. So, when the front wheels left the ground, they left
the party, and two wheels and the Roll-O-Matic rolled underneath
the tractor. I don't remember any more (for heaven's sake, it's
been almost 50 years) whether the wheel set stopped under the main
case or ended up right in front of the 'hog. In any event, I sure
wasn't going anywhere.
In that instance, what saved me from being in deep crap-ola with
my dad was his discovery that the steering spindle break was not a
fresh fracture...there was oxidation and wear on the broken part
that indicated it had been that way for some time, probably
several weeks. I just happened to be the unlucky sap who
discovered the failure. This is why having a father with
engineering training (Purdue AgE, 1950. Go Boilermakers!) was a
good thing, as he recognized it wasn't anything that *I* did...
Some years before, I had also had an 'incident' with the same
tractor where the steering had a glitch in the worm or sector and
would occasionally lock up, usually in a sharp turn. While running
from a rain storm during haying season, I came into the driveway
of one of our farms in road gear, and that's when the steering
decided to lock, putting me and the tractor through a barbed-wire
fence (mostly down, fortunately) and into a wheat field. As a
13-year-old, I didn't have the presence of mind to stop, and cut a
50-foot loop into the wheat field, turning around and heading down
the driveway without ever stopping, or even slowing down much. The
family crew who were haying that day didn't let me forget that one
for a LONG time. In fact, one of my cousins, now retired, probably
would still greet me with "Throw in the clutch and put on the
brake!" if he thought about it much.
Tune in next time for more adventures with 2-cylinder John Deere
tractors. That's all for today!
Mark J
Columbia, MO - Working from home for 62 days now.
On 5/20/2020 4:19 PM, Brian VanDragt
wrote:
Mark,
Only 720s had green and black dash
variants, all 730s had the black dash upgrades. The faster 5th
gear was an option. I have attached a picture of the different
quadrants.
Brian
On May 20, 2020 at 5:12 PM Mark Johnson
<markjohnson100 at centurylink.net> wrote:
Thanks Dean. I think both of our 730D were 'black dash'
variants as they both had a very 'automotive type' steering
wheel instead of the rather austere classic steering wheel
found on the letter and 20 series. I never figured out exactly
what the difference was in the transmissions - the shift
patterns were completely different and one tractor had that
'high 5th gear' - they were pretty close to the same in road
gear and 3rd on the one with the high 5th gear was the same
ratio, or nearly so, as 4th on the other one. Both good
machines, I think one of my first cousins has one of them that
he uses on his in-laws farm these days.
I did have a couple of interesting mechanical failures with
steering on 730s but that is a story for another day...time to
do some chores and get some supper.
Mark J
On 5/20/2020 1:20
PM, Dean VP wrote:
Mark,
All 730D's are pretty much alike. The Black
Dash 720D was only made in 1958 and had several changes
from the Green Dash 1957 720D. There were several changes
to the engine between the two years and then from then on
the 73o's all had the same engine as the 1958 Black Dash
720. There were some clutch improvements also made between
the 1957 and 1958 720D's. However, the most visible
difference between the 1957 720D's and the 1958 720D's are
of course the Black Dash and the Plastic, more deluxe,
steering wheel. I can go into more detail if needed. The
1958 Black Dash 720D's mechanically are essential the same
as the 1959 and 1960 730D's. The 730 changes were all
cosmetic and tied JD over another couple years due to the
delay in getting the New Generation tractors ready for
sale. So a 1958 720D is essentially the same engine, same
drive train, same everything as a 730D except for the tin.
There are purist who beleive the 20 Series were the last
of the real Two Cylinder tractors. The change in cosmetics
on the 30 series violated that older hood look that had
been around for 25 years or more. As an owner of a 1958
720D can tell you they are real animals. Also own a 1958
520 and 1958 620. All Black Dashes. My favorite series of
JD tractors. All the Bells and Whistles that one could get
in that era. It was during this era of JD tractors that JD
overtook I/H in the number of Agricultural tractors built
per year in North America. Yes, JD overtook I/h in
tractort Sales with what was supposed to be an obsolete
design. The 20 Series was that good and reliable and due
to I/H's mistake of increasing HP without increasing thje
strength of the drive train in the X60 Series, JD became
the leader. I/H upgraded the X60 Series tractor drive
trains out in the field but it was too late. Then when
the JD New generation Tractors came out in late 1960, 1961
models, JD never looked back and soon became the leader in
Total Agricultural Equipment Sales in the US. I/H never
caught back up and during the farm recession in the 80's
I/H finally had to merge with Case to survive. I/H line
of tractors were very good but too many management
mistakes were made.
On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 04:54:28 AM MST, Mark
Johnson <markjohnson100 at centurylink.net>
wrote:
The 4020 has repeatedly been voted "Best Tractor of
All Time" in surveys. We never had one, and I never
drove one...so my vote goes to the 730D; we had two.
Dean - what is the difference between a "Black
Dash" 730D and a "not Black Dash" - our two had
different gear ratios, for sure - one of them had a
5th gear that ran about 6-7 mph at rated speed; we
always referred to it as the "going to dinner gear"
because it got you to the house faster, without
running the risk of an upset driving through farm
fields in road gear!
Mark J
On 5/19/2020 10:10 PM, deanvp at att.net
wrote:
The only JD Detroit Diesel
tractor that comes to mind is a JD 435 which
was only sold for about 2 years in the very
late 50’s. I don’t know if any were used in
combines. I agree, the JD 4020 is probably
one of the best engineered and built JD
Tractors ever made. Well with the exception
of the Black Dash JD 720D or 730D! Might want
to throw the Black Dash 820 and 830 into that
mix as well. 😊
Dean VP
Snohomish, WA 98290
From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>
On Behalf Of Dean Vinson
Sent: Monday, May 18,
2020 7:04 AM
To: 'Antique Tractor
Email Discussion Group' <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Starter
installation trick on the later two
cylinder JD Tractors.
Thomas, 4020s
with Detroit Diesels? Must have been
after-market conversions. And I’d wonder
why. Although I haven’t (yet) owned a 4020 I
include them in my general sense of “hard to
find a better engineered, better built…” etc.
Dean Vinson
Saint Paris, Ohio
From: AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]
On Behalf Of ustonThomas
Mehrkam
Sent: Monday, May 18,
2020 6:48 AM
To: Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Starter
installation trick on the later two
cylinder JD Tractors.
JD seems
to have a following so they must have done
something right over the years. I have
never owned one just observed some of the
trials of neighbors. We never had that
much trouble on the other brands. Maybe
the neighbors were just bad mechanics.
We had a
big land owner that raised thousands of
acres of rice. They had all JD. 4020's
and such. Plus JD combines. I drove the
combines when they were in a pinch for a
couple of summers. I have no problem with
the combines and the 4020 tractors.
Except they looked like a steam engine
with all that black smoke coming out of
the stack. Boy those Detroit Diesels
could scream and blow smoke.
On Sunday,
May 17, 2020, 7:40:09 PM CDT, Dean
Vinson <dean at vinsonfarm.net>
wrote:
I like pretty much all
the old tractor makes, and have a
red one, green one, and a newer
(~1980) blue one, and all three
get pretty regular use. The
green one is a 620, same model
Dean VP was describing.
Difficult starter access aside,
my guess is you’d have to hunt
pretty hard to find a better
engineered, better built, more
reliable,
tougher-down-to-the-last-breath
series of tractors.
Not that I’d kick an
Oliver 77 out of bed, so to speak.
Dean Vinson
Saint Paris Ohio
From: AT [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]
On Behalf Of ustonThomas
Mehrkam
Sent:
Sunday, May 17, 2020 10:38
AM
To: Antique
Tractor Email Discussion
Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject:
Re: [AT] Starter
installation trick on the
later two cylinder JD
Tractors.
Why do you
guys LOVE those pain in the
ass John Deer tractors so
much. I have owned
international, Massey
Harris, Massey Ferguson,
Oliver and Miniapalious
Moline tractors. All were
acceptable. All of those
tractors still run. :-}
There was
always a lot of Cussing,
Wrench Throwing, Pulling etc
from the JD owners. :-}
Now I did
it and insulted your
Religion. :-}
On
Sunday, May 17, 2020,
2:46:43 AM CDT, deanvp at att.net
<deanvp at att.net>
wrote:
I just went
through a few days of
hassle that caused me to
remove/reinstall
the starter on
my 1958 JD 620 high
Clearance tractor. There
is an
abbreviation
for this procedure
called a complete PITA
unless you know a
trick I knew
at one time and had
completely forgotten
about. My situation
was compounded
by a 10" shorter battery
cable than what is
supposed to be
installed.
Mine was 54", the std is
64" that makes it a
triple PITA. I am
referring to
all the late Two
Cylinder tractors,
letter and numbered
series,
that have the
starter inside a cast
cavity in the underside
of the main
case. The
battery cable is fed to
an anodized copper
semi-ridged ribbon the
connects to
the starter switch
mounted on the starter.
To use the proper
terminology on
a JD 620 it is called a
cranking motor. To pull
the started
one is
supposed to disconnect
the battery cable from
this copper ribbon
before trying
to remove the starter.
Well folks unless all
the planets are
in alignment
and the nut that needs
to be loosened is
oriented such that you
can get to it
between the flywheel and
the main case there is
no way in hell
that is going
to happen. Well, unless
as JD very casually
mentions that the
flywheel may
need to be removed. That
is not a casual
decision. So if you
have to remove
the starter with the
cable still attached,
the battery cable
needs to be
worked forward and
downward to provide
enough slack to slide
the
starter out of
the cavity so one can
get to the nut that
holds the battery
cable to the
copper ribbon. That in
itself can be difficult.
But now lets
say you are
ready to reinstall the
starter with the cable
attached removing
the slack at
the starter in inserted
into the round hole in
the main
casting. Here
come the trick that will
save you all kinds of
grief and time.
As you slide
the starter cone into
the hole you will all of
a sudden hit a
dead stop and
are unable to get the
starter further into the
hole.
What you will
discover is either the
copper ribbon and
bolt/nut tied to the
battery cable
is hitting the casting
or the lever that
actuates the button
on the starter
switch is hitting the
cavity hole casting or
both. The
cable/copper
ribbon and the starter
switch lever go through
an oblong
horizontal
hole above the hole the
starter goes into. So
one comes to the
conclusion
that somehow the battery
cable/copper ribbon is
bent to go
through that
hole and then somehow
pry the switch lever up
high enough to
get thought
the upper hole. I can
assure you that just
plain doesn't work.
BTW, this is
all hidden behind the
flywheel. But what
completely fools you
is the starter
can be raised another
1/2" or more in its hole
because the
whole cone
isn't in yet and the
lever simply slides over
the interference
and all is
cool, I will guarantee
you will convince
yourself that the
starter can't
go higher because it is
in a tight hole. Wrong
it will go
higher. I used
a floor jack to get the
starter up close to the
cavity and
tiled the
starter to get it
started in the hole and
then carefully found the
center of
gravity of the starter
and lifted that whole
sucker up the extra
half inch or
so and boom the lever
and cable/copper ribbon
fall into place
by taking the
slack out. Once I did it
the right way I realized
I had been
here before
but probably 20 years
ago. And then all the
lights started
blinking.
This trick will save you
hours of frustration and
heartache.
I also changed
the cable to a longer
version even longer than
standard
version. I
went to 72" rather than
the std 64" I wanted
more wiggle room.
I never could
really firmly establish
whether the original
cable size was
2/0 or 1/0
from the factory but
since there are places
where the cable goes
though that
are tight fits the OD of
the cable cannot be much
over 0.5" I
went out cable
hunting at all the local
Auto Parts stores as
well as Napa.
I found out
there is a bunch of
different cables out
there with varying
thickness of
insulation. None fit my
requirement until I
found some 1/0
Welding cable.
That fit four
requirements. High
current carrying
capability,
OD wasn't too
big, the cable was
reasonably flexible and
it was less
expensive than
anything else I had
looked at. Now where do
you get that
stuff? Of
course at a welding
supply store except the
closest one for me is
a bit of a
hike so I went to a
"Batteries Plus" dealer.
Sure enough had
exactly what I
needed. Cable cut to
length.
So I hope this
might save you some time
and grief you when you
work on the
late letter
series and numbered
series Two Cylinder JD
starter issues.
BTW, the thing
that caused me to remove
the starter to begin
with was a
complete
misdiagnosis on my
part. !@#$%^&*(
Starter went dead. Made
the
assumption the
starter switch had gone
bad because I knew I had
a good
battery and 12
Volts at the starter
switch. The real
problem was I had a
resistive
ground between the
battery cable and the
battery box and then to
top it off an
even more resistive
ground (15K ohms)
between the battery box
and the rest
of the tractor. Now why
did this all seem to
happen when I
thought I was
going to go to a plowing
day . I Power Washed
the tractor
which I hadn't
done in a long time.
Rust developed
immediately where it
doesn't
belong. So the moral of
this story is to never
wash your tractor.
Dean VP
Snohomish, WA
98290
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