[AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.

Sun Jun 7 05:39:22 PDT 2020

There are some ridiculously cheap refrigerant options but I wouldn't go 
near any system that used them...

An 80/20 mix of propane and isobutane supposedly has a nearly identical 
eutectic curve (refrigerant behavior characteristic) as R-12 - even 
carries refrigerant oil through the system in a comparable manner. For 
obvious reasons, using it, particularly in cars, is illegal as hell.

Some back-alley shops in NYC got caught using this mix and were fined in 
the 5-6 digit range...

Mark J

On 6/6/2020 5:34 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>
> Brad:  My biggest gripe with the new refrigerants is they always 
> require more equipment, more money, and more licensing. Why cant they 
> find something that is affordable..
> Cecil
>
> On 6/6/2020 3:09 PM, bloomis at charter.net wrote:
>>
>> Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If he didn’t fix the leak then 
>> he’ll be adding more. I didn’t say it couldn’t be a small leak, but 
>> still a leak. If it is a split system it probably holds 4-6 lbs. of 
>> refrigerant. A domestic refrigerator holds less than a pound. I had a 
>> little 3’ pie case that had a leak that I never found. Every 3 months 
>> it would quit. The charge was 6oz of R-12. That is a tiny leak. So if 
>> pie cases, or any other refrigerant system had small leaks by design, 
>> refrigeration mechanics would never go home. It was at the Piedras 
>> Blancas Motel, which closed shortly thereafter. Forever. 
>> https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/
>>
>> The reason the ozone layer and refrigerants came under scrutiny was 
>> primarily due to the automobile. Older cars were notorious to leak, 
>> all averaging 2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply that by the millions and that 
>> is a lot of R-12 into the atmosphere. I am not going to argue the 
>> science, just the outcome. That effected ALL refrigeration, A/C. When 
>> I first started in the trade when one needed to empty a system for 
>> repair you just blew it out into the atmosphere. Now recovery 
>> machines and a slew of refrigerants. I got out of commercial 
>> refrigeration as the plethora of refrigerants was overwhelming. You 
>> never knew what the last guy put in a system. Used to be three, R=12 
>> for most medium temp/ some low temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502 for low 
>> temp. Simple and easy. I couldn’t work on a new A/C system as I’ve 
>> never worked with 410a. Totally different animal. Now it’s already 
>> being phased out. Long live ammonia! Easy, and enviro friendly. Mostly.
>> Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane. Most of us 
>> know what that is. Not much. Liquid of course.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> *From:* AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> *On Behalf Of *Mike M
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM
>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>> So an air conditioning system can't have a small leak that reduces 
>> the level of refrigerant over time? Then why did my son in law just 
>> have to add 2 lbs to our older AC unit? Where did it go?
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, bradloomis at charter.net 
>> <mailto:bradloomis at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>     If it leaks it has a leak. No over time, no evaporating. A leak.
>>     Some repairable some not so much. Especially on a domestic
>>     refrigerator. Gets into cost of repair exceeds value of
>>     equipment. However that could cause excessive run time but the
>>     compartments would be warm, eventually hot. Dean indicated that
>>     temps were OK. Granted without a thermometer. Calibrated fingers? 😊
>>
>>     Brad
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>
>>     Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.
>>
>>     I would be suspicious of your refrigerant level, it can leak over
>>     time.
>>
>>     Mike M
>>
>>     On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>     > We have a GE side by side refrigerator, Model TFX27F, with all
>>     the bells and whistles Front Door Ice and Water dispenser, access
>>     door to refrigerator without opening the big door, etc  etc. In
>>     fact we have a duplicate running in our kitchen right now.  This
>>     one was used as extra freezer and refrigerator space for awhile
>>     when we moved here 20 years ago and then it was turned off and
>>     not used for at least 10 years. Well in my current need of making
>>     space in the garage I fired it back up to check everything to get
>>     it ready for sale.  It freezes and the refrigerator compartment
>>     gets cool like it should, well I haven't put a thermometer in
>>     each compartment, but it appears to me to be working. Except.....
>>     it never quits running.  Not quite true  it runs about 95% of the
>>     time. Without having door opened or anything disturbed.   We have
>>     had such good luck with this era of combination freezer
>>     refrigerator I thought it might be worth something to those just
>>     getting on their feet. I've cleaned the whole guts under the
>>     compartments and it really wasn't all that bad. The coils are
>>     clean as can be.  I doubt this thing is worth more than $100
>>     running as it should but if I could find a cheap fix it might be
>>     worth spending $20 on a part or so.
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > And to satisfy the list needs of being on topic. I need to make
>>     more room for Antique Tractor stuff I don't need.    Any one have
>>     a test I can run or a particular part I can check? I'm pretty
>>     proficient electronics wise.  Besides if I could get this running
>>     properly somebody might take this off my hands and I won't have
>>     to deal with getting rid of it. It would take my loader tractor
>>     to get it in to my P/U bed. Big heavy sucker.   Help?  PS: I
>>     don't remember the last time I threw something away but I do
>>     remember it was traumatic.! 😊
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > Dean VP
>>
>>     > Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>>
>>
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