[AT] Batteries charged backwards.
Cecil Bearden
crbearden at copper.net
Sat Feb 22 17:32:17 PST 2020
They still have voltage and a big spark. Weather has things shut down
here for a day or two. I am going to discharge them with some welding
rods and get it over with.
Cecil
On 2/22/2020 6:11 PM, Thomas Martin wrote:
>
> Hi Cecil
>
> How are your batteries, now?
>
> Tony, my friend across the isle rang me this morning.
>
> Using his own advice, he had restored the polarity on a
>
> customer's battery, this week, and was curious as to your
>
> progress, with an alternative solution.
>
> Tom
>
>> On 16 February 2020 at 03:50 Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>>
>> Steve:
>>
>> When I looked a the lamps there was no light seen. Maybe they were
>> still drawing current, The battery is still "hot"when shorted across
>> the terminals. I need to do something in the next 3 days as I don't
>> want these batteries to freeze.
>> Cecil
>>
>> On 2/15/2020 8:18 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> Mathematically correct, but bear in mind the entire explanation is
>>> predicated upon your stated assumption, that both 6V and 12V lamps
>>> are rated at the same wattage. I agree, and in fact I mentioned
>>> this myself, somewhere wayyyyy up there in this thread. Also, if
>>> you have two of the 12V lamps in parallel (which I believe Cecil
>>> mentioned back there at square One) that's going to do the same
>>> thing, double the current draw. Which option is easier depends on
>>> what you have laying around: do you have a couple of 12V headlamps,
>>> or do you have a single 6V lamp that is rated a similar wattage as
>>> one of those?
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 8:38 AM < deanvp at att.net
>>> <mailto:deanvp at att.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cecil, let me try to explain why going to the 6v light helps
>>> discharge the battery faster. I think your statement of “….
>>> would not discharge the battery” should really be phrased as it
>>> takes too long to discharge the battery. Lets assume that the
>>> 12V lamp and the 6 V lamp are designed to produce 60 Watts. The
>>> 12V lamp then uses 5 Amps but the 6V lamp uses 10 Amps to
>>> produce the same power. So the resistance of the 6V lamp will be
>>> half of the 12V lamp. Or looking at it another way, the
>>> resistance of the 12V lamp is 2.5 ohms and the 6V lamp is 1.25
>>> ohms. Now lets assume the 12 V battery has been discharged to
>>> 1.25 volts and needs to be pulled down further. The 12 V lamp
>>> will only draw a ½ Amp and slowly draw less but the 6V lamp will
>>> draw 1 Amp initially and slowly get less. The 6 Volt lamp will
>>> discharge the battery twice as fast at this lower voltage which
>>> one could not do at the 12V starting voltage because it would
>>> burn out the 6V lamp. As the battery discharges a lower
>>> resistance is needed to keep the discharge rate at a reasonable
>>> rate. As the battery voltage drops the discharge rate drops
>>> with it unless the attached resistance is lower. A 12 V lamp
>>> would take much longer to fully discharge the battery. That is
>>> why the 6V lamp is used after the battery has dropped below 6V.
>>> Just plain old math. It takes a really long time to get to a
>>> true “0” V. It just takes longer with a 12V Lamp vs a 6V lamp.
>>>
>>> Dean VP
>>>
>>> Apache Junction, AZ
>>>
>>> *From:*AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>> *On Behalf Of
>>> *Cecil Bearden
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 7:37 AM
>>> *To:* at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Batteries charged backwards.
>>>
>>> The problem I cannot understand is why, when I connected 2
>>> incandescent headlights in parallel to the battery it would not
>>> discharge the battery completely. My battery supplier told me
>>> to then use a 6 volt light. I have seriously thought about just
>>> hooking both in series and then using them as power for arc
>>> welding. A welding rod would discharge them quickly and
>>> completely. Welding can be done using batteries as power...
>>> I charge my batteries outside for safety. These are sealed
>>> batteries.
>>> Cecil
>>>
>>> On 2/13/2020 8:28 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>
>>> I do not have ADD, although I am starting to wonder what
>>> personal issues you might have, Thomas. And no, the point
>>> of this exercise is not to reverse the polarity, The point
>>> is to make the best possible attempt to recover two
>>> batteries that have been accidentally reverse-charged. That
>>> involves much more than reversing the polarity. There's a
>>> right way and a lot of wrong ways to tackle each of the
>>> steps. Discharge. Repolarize. Recharge.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 9:08 AM Thomas Martin
>>> <tmartin at xtra.co.nz <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you have ADD? The point of this exercise is to
>>> reverse the polarity of a battery.
>>>
>>> On 13 February 2020 at 23:15 Stephen Offiler
>>> <soffiler at gmail.com <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For some actual information on lead-acid charging,
>>> try this:
>>>
>>> https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:49 AM Thomas Martin <
>>> tmartin at xtra.co.nz <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Dean
>>>
>>> After the dead battery is connected to the
>>> charged 12v battery in parallel, a battery
>>> charger is connected, (the charged battery
>>>
>>> is there only to dictate the polarity), and
>>> charging can commence.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> On 13 February 2020 at 20:41 deanvp at att.net
>>> <mailto:deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> Could you explain this a little further. If
>>> the current from the jumper battery does not
>>> have any effect(affect) on the dead battery
>>> how does it charge it up?
>>>
>>> Dean VP
>>>
>>> Apache Junction, AZ
>>>
>>> *From:* AT
>>> <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>> *On Behalf Of *Thomas Martin
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2020 12:47 PM
>>> *To:* Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AT] Batteries charged backwards.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> Well it appears you do not understand the
>>> difference between connecting in series and
>>> parallel.
>>>
>>> When you jump start a vehicle, one connects
>>> in parallel, the current from the jumper
>>> battery does
>>>
>>> not have any affect on the the dead battery.
>>>
>>> Tom.
>>>
>>> On 13 February 2020 at 07:52 Stephen
>>> Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I wouldn't purposely put 50 amps into a
>>> totally dead battery if I didn't have
>>> to, but then we have the example cited
>>> by others, the jump-start. Who-knows
>>> how many amps will flow; limited only by
>>> the internal resistance of the batteries
>>> and the cables & connections. I don't
>>> think many people appreciate that a
>>> jump-start is actually sort of a
>>> hail-Mary maneuver. If you didn't need
>>> to get the car/truck/tractor started
>>> ASAP, the smart move is to charge the
>>> battery slowly and correctly. People
>>> are going to chime in and say "I've been
>>> jump-starting my entire life and never
>>> had a problem!" OK. Me too. But the
>>> issue here is that it's impossible to
>>> know how much you might have shortened
>>> the life of that battery by hitting it
>>> with that big uncontrolled amperage
>>> surge. In Cecil Bearden's case, he's
>>> not stuck in a field or a parking lot or
>>> whatever. He has the opportunity to do
>>> it right. And that definitely does NOT
>>> include hitting it with a giant surge.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 1:08 PM Thomas
>>> Martin < tmartin at xtra.co.nz
>>> <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Surely US battery chargers have
>>> adjustable amperage?
>>>
>>> I thought it was a given that you
>>> wouldn't put 50 amps into a dead
>>> battery...
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> On 13 February 2020 at 03:14
>>> Stephen Offiler <
>>> soffiler at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hold on. A completely dead 12V
>>> battery connected to a good 12V
>>> battery is going to cause very
>>> large current to flow into the
>>> dead one. This is not a good idea.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 9:08 AM
>>> < szabelski at wildblue.net
>>> <mailto:szabelski at wildblue.net>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cecil,
>>>
>>> I agree with completely
>>> discharging the batteries
>>> and then putting the
>>> batteries in parallel one at
>>> a time with a good 12V
>>> battery. The batteries will
>>> try to equalize when in
>>> parallel. When you drain the
>>> battery, take the load off
>>> and let the battery sit for
>>> a while, then put the load
>>> back on and drain some more.
>>>
>>> You should use a battery
>>> charger that has a trickle
>>> charge feature. This puts a
>>> full charge into the battery
>>> at first, then drops down to
>>> a small charge to top the
>>> battery off. You may have to
>>> do this several times and
>>> should leave the charger on
>>> for at least one full day.
>>> Don’t rush the job.
>>>
>>> You can also check that each
>>> cell is good by taking a
>>> reading between each cell. A
>>> bad cell will indicate a
>>> lower charge then the
>>> others. Do this with every
>>> recharge attempt and note if
>>> you’re making any progress.
>>>
>>> Don’t know if you’ve ever
>>> gone on-line to look for
>>> videos on bringing dead
>>> batteries back to life, but
>>> their are some that show how
>>> to drain a battery, rinse it
>>> out, then refill and
>>> recharge. They appear to
>>> work out quite well, but I
>>> can’t swear by them since
>>> I’ve never done anything
>>> like this myself.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Thomas Martin <
>>> tmartin at xtra.co.nz
>>> <mailto:tmartin at xtra.co.nz>>
>>> To: Antique Tractor Email
>>> Discussion Group <
>>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>>
>>>
>>> Sent: Wed, 12 Feb 2020
>>> 00:24:36 -0500 (EST)
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Batteries
>>> charged backwards.
>>>
>>> Hi Cecil
>>> I consulted a very good
>>> friend on the other-side of
>>> the isle.
>>> Tony is auto-electrician, of
>>> vast car, truck & tractor
>>> experience.
>>> He says you MUST discharge
>>> the batteries, separately
>>> with a bulb.
>>> They need to completely
>>> discharged. No measurable
>>> voltage.
>>> Then one battery at a time
>>> needs to be placed in
>>> parallel with another
>>> fully charged 12v battery,
>>> they then need to be
>>> connected to a 12v
>>> charger...
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> > On 12 February 2020 at
>>> 15:31 Cecil Bearden <
>>> crbearden at copper.net
>>> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > I had 2 group 31
>>> batteries out of the tractor
>>> that were completely
>>> > > dead. I hooked them up
>>> in series and connected my
>>> 24Vcharger to them
>>> > > as It was handy and I
>>> wanted to charge both.
>>> After a couple of days I
>>> > > checked them and found
>>> that I had hooked the
>>> charger backwards. I
>>> > > hooked a couple of
>>> incandescent headlights to
>>> drain the battery, but
>>> > > after 3 days they won't
>>> light up the headlights, but
>>> they still have a
>>> > > lot of spark when
>>> shorted with cables.. A guy
>>> at my battery shop said
>>> > > I should hook up a 6volt
>>> light to them and use that
>>> to run them
>>> > > down.... At $100/ea, I
>>> need to try to save these...
>>> > > Cecil
>>> >
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