<html>
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<p>They still have voltage and a big spark. Weather has things shut
down here for a day or two. I am going to discharge them with
some welding rods and get it over with.<br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2020 6:11 PM, Thomas Martin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:70639786.1534317.1582416691487@webmail.xtra.co.nz">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<p>Hi Cecil<br>
</p>
<p class="default-style">How are your batteries, now?</p>
<p class="default-style">Tony, my friend across the isle rang me
this morning.</p>
<p class="default-style">Using his own advice, he had restored the
polarity on a</p>
<p class="default-style">customer's battery, this week, and was
curious as to your</p>
<p class="default-style"> progress, with an alternative solution.</p>
<p class="default-style">Tom</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On 16 February 2020 at 03:50 Cecil Bearden
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"><crbearden@copper.net></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<p>Steve:</p>
<p>When I looked a the lamps there was no light seen. Maybe
they were still drawing current, The battery is still
"hot"when shorted across the terminals. I need to do
something in the next 3 days as I don't want these batteries
to freeze. <br>
Cecil<br>
</p>
<div class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/2020 8:18 AM,
Stephen Offiler wrote: <br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Mathematically correct, but bear in mind the
entire explanation is predicated upon your stated
assumption, that both 6V and 12V lamps are rated at the same
wattage. I agree, and in fact I mentioned this myself,
somewhere wayyyyy up there in this thread. Also, if you
have two of the 12V lamps in parallel (which I believe Cecil
mentioned back there at square One) that's going to do the
same thing, double the current draw. Which option is easier
depends on what you have laying around: do you have a
couple of 12V headlamps, or do you have a single 6V lamp
that is rated a similar wattage as one of those?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SO</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb
15, 2020 at 8:38 AM < <a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>> wrote: <br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div
class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-gmail-m_-1681538846691093110WordSection1">
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
windowtext;">Cecil, let me try to explain why
going to the 6v light helps discharge the battery
faster. I think your statement of “…. would not
discharge the battery” should really be phrased as
it takes too long to discharge the battery. Lets
assume that the 12V lamp and the 6 V lamp are
designed to produce 60 Watts. The 12V lamp then
uses 5 Amps but the 6V lamp uses 10 Amps to
produce the same power. So the resistance of the
6V lamp will be half of the 12V lamp. Or looking
at it another way, the resistance of the 12V lamp
is 2.5 ohms and the 6V lamp is 1.25 ohms. Now
lets assume the 12 V battery has been discharged
to 1.25 volts and needs to be pulled down
further. The 12 V lamp will only draw a ½ Amp
and slowly draw less but the 6V lamp will draw 1
Amp initially and slowly get less. The 6 Volt lamp
will discharge the battery twice as fast at this
lower voltage which one could not do at the 12V
starting voltage because it would burn out the 6V
lamp. As the battery discharges a lower resistance
is needed to keep the discharge rate at a
reasonable rate. As the battery voltage drops the
discharge rate drops with it unless the attached
resistance is lower. A 12 V lamp would take much
longer to fully discharge the battery. That is why
the 6V lamp is used after the battery has dropped
below 6V. Just plain old math. It takes a really
long time to get to a true “0” V. It just takes
longer with a 12V Lamp vs a 6V lamp. </span></p>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
windowtext;"> </span></p>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
windowtext;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span
style="color: windowtext;">Dean VP</span></p>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span
style="color: windowtext;">Apache Junction, AZ</span></p>
</div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
windowtext;"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right: none; border-bottom: none;
border-left: none; border-top: 1pt; padding: 3pt
0in 0in;">
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="color: windowtext;">From:</span></strong><span
style="color: windowtext;"> AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Cecil Bearden<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, February 13,
2020 7:37 AM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [AT] Batteries
charged backwards.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>The problem I cannot understand is why, when I
connected 2 incandescent headlights in parallel to
the battery it would not discharge the battery
completely. My battery supplier told me to then
use a 6 volt light. I have seriously thought about
just hooking both in series and then using them as
power for arc welding. A welding rod would
discharge them quickly and completely. Welding can
be done using batteries as power... <br>
I charge my batteries outside for safety. These are
sealed batteries. <br>
Cecil</p>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">On 2/13/2020 8:28
AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">I do not have
ADD, although I am starting to wonder what
personal issues you might have, Thomas. And
no, the point of this exercise is not to
reverse the polarity, The point is to make
the best possible attempt to recover two
batteries that have been accidentally
reverse-charged. That involves much more than
reversing the polarity. There's a right way
and a lot of wrong ways to tackle each of the
steps. Discharge. Repolarize. Recharge.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb
13, 2020 at 9:08 AM Thomas Martin <<a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>Do you have ADD? The point of this
exercise is to reverse the polarity of a
battery.</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">On 13
February 2020 at 23:15 Stephen Offiler
<<a href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">For
some actual information on lead-acid
charging, try this:</p>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><a
href="https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery</a><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">On
Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:49 AM Thomas
Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>Hi Dean</p>
<p>After the dead battery is
connected to the charged 12v
battery in parallel, a battery
charger is connected, (the charged
battery</p>
<p>is there only to dictate the
polarity), and charging can
commence.</p>
<p>Tom</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">On
13 February 2020 at 20:41 <a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p>Tom,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Could you explain this a
little further. If the current
from the jumper battery does
not have any effect(affect) on
the dead battery how does it
charge it up?</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p>Dean VP</p>
<p>Apache Junction, AZ</p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:
none; border-bottom: none;
border-left: none;
border-top: 1pt; padding:
3pt 0in;">
<p><strong><span
style="font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">From:</span></strong>
AT <<a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
<strong><span
style="font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">On
Behalf Of </span></strong>Thomas
Martin<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">Sent:</span></strong>
Wednesday, February 12,
2020 12:47 PM<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">To:</span></strong>
Antique Tractor Email
Discussion Group <<a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">Subject:</span></strong>
Re: [AT] Batteries charged
backwards.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Stephen</p>
<p>Well it appears you do not
understand the difference
between connecting in series
and parallel.</p>
<p>When you jump start a
vehicle, one connects in
parallel, the current from the
jumper battery does</p>
<p>not have any affect on the
the dead battery.</p>
<p>Tom.</p>
<blockquote>
<p style="margin-bottom:
12pt;">On 13 February 2020
at 07:52 Stephen Offiler
<<a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p>I wouldn't purposely
put 50 amps into a
totally dead battery if
I didn't have to, but
then we have the example
cited by others, the
jump-start. Who-knows
how many amps will flow;
limited only by the
internal resistance of
the batteries and the
cables &
connections. I don't
think many people
appreciate that a
jump-start is actually
sort of a hail-Mary
maneuver. If you didn't
need to get the
car/truck/tractor
started ASAP, the smart
move is to charge the
battery slowly and
correctly. People are
going to chime in and
say "I've been
jump-starting my entire
life and never had a
problem!" OK. Me too.
But the issue here is
that it's impossible to
know how much you might
have shortened the life
of that battery by
hitting it with that big
uncontrolled amperage
surge. In Cecil
Bearden's case, he's not
stuck in a field or a
parking lot or whatever.
He has the opportunity
to do it right. And
that definitely does NOT
include hitting it with
a giant surge.</p>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Wed, Feb 12, 2020
at 1:08 PM Thomas
Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>Surely US battery
chargers have
adjustable amperage?</p>
<p>I thought it was a
given that you
wouldn't put 50 amps
into a dead
battery...</p>
<p>Tom</p>
<blockquote>
<p
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;">On 13
February 2020 at
03:14 Stephen
Offiler < <a
href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p>Hold on. A
completely dead
12V battery
connected to a
good 12V battery
is going to
cause very large
current to flow
into the dead
one. This is not
a good idea.</p>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>SO</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Wed, Feb
12, 2020 at
9:08 AM < <a
href="mailto:szabelski@wildblue.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">szabelski@wildblue.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Cecil, <br>
<br>
I agree with
completely
discharging
the batteries
and then
putting the
batteries in
parallel one
at a time with
a good 12V
battery. The
batteries will
try to
equalize when
in parallel.
When you drain
the battery,
take the load
off and let
the battery
sit for a
while, then
put the load
back on and
drain some
more. <br>
<br>
You should use
a battery
charger that
has a trickle
charge
feature. This
puts a full
charge into
the battery at
first, then
drops down to
a small charge
to top the
battery off.
You may have
to do this
several times
and should
leave the
charger on for
at least one
full day.
Don’t rush the
job. <br>
<br>
You can also
check that
each cell is
good by taking
a reading
between each
cell. A bad
cell will
indicate a
lower charge
then the
others. Do
this with
every recharge
attempt and
note if you’re
making any
progress. <br>
<br>
Don’t know if
you’ve ever
gone on-line
to look for
videos on
bringing dead
batteries back
to life, but
their are some
that show how
to drain a
battery, rinse
it out, then
refill and
recharge. They
appear to work
out quite
well, but I
can’t swear by
them since
I’ve never
done anything
like this
myself. <br>
<br>
Good luck! <br>
<br>
Carl <br>
----- Original
Message -----
<br>
From: Thomas
Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz" target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
<br>
To: Antique
Tractor Email
Discussion
Group < <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank"
rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>> <br>
Sent: Wed, 12
Feb 2020
00:24:36 -0500
(EST) <br>
Subject: Re:
[AT] Batteries
charged
backwards. <br>
<br>
Hi Cecil <br>
I consulted a
very good
friend on the
other-side of
the isle. <br>
Tony is
auto-electrician,
of vast car,
truck &
tractor
experience. <br>
He says you
MUST discharge
the batteries,
separately
with a bulb. <br>
They need to
completely
discharged. No
measurable
voltage. <br>
Then one
battery at a
time needs to
be placed in
parallel with
another <br>
fully charged
12v battery,
they then need
to be
connected to a
12v <br>
charger... <br>
<br>
Tom <br>
<br>
> On 12
February 2020
at 15:31 Cecil
Bearden < <a
href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>>
wrote: <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > I
had 2 group 31
batteries out
of the tractor
that were
completely <br>
> >
dead. I
hooked them up
in series and
connected my
24Vcharger to
them <br>
> > as
It was handy
and I wanted
to charge
both. After a
couple of days
I <br>
> >
checked them
and found that
I had hooked
the charger
backwards. I
<br>
> >
hooked a
couple of
incandescent
headlights to
drain the
battery, but <br>
> >
after 3 days
they won't
light up the
headlights,
but they still
have a <br>
> > lot
of spark when
shorted with
cables.. A
guy at my
battery shop
said <br>
> > I
should hook up
a 6volt light
to them and
use that to
run them <br>
> >
down.... At
$100/ea, I
need to try to
save these...
<br>
> >
Cecil <br>
>
_______________________________________________
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<a
href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><br>
</p>
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<p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>AT mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________ <br>
AT mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<br>
<a
href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class="default-style"><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________
<br>
AT mailing list <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a> <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a> <br>
</blockquote>
<p class="default-style"><br>
</p>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
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