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    <p>They still have voltage and a big spark.  Weather has things shut
      down here for a day or two.  I am going to discharge them with
      some welding rods and get it over with.<br>
      Cecil<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2020 6:11 PM, Thomas Martin
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:70639786.1534317.1582416691487@webmail.xtra.co.nz">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta charset="UTF-8">
      <p>Hi Cecil<br>
      </p>
      <p class="default-style">How are your batteries, now?</p>
      <p class="default-style">Tony, my friend across the isle rang me
        this morning.</p>
      <p class="default-style">Using his own advice, he had restored the
        polarity on a</p>
      <p class="default-style">customer's battery, this week, and was
        curious as to your</p>
      <p class="default-style"> progress, with an alternative solution.</p>
      <p class="default-style">Tom</p>
      <blockquote type="cite">On 16 February 2020 at 03:50 Cecil Bearden
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net"><crbearden@copper.net></a> wrote: <br>
        <br>
        <p>Steve:</p>
        <p>When I looked a the lamps there was no light seen.  Maybe
          they were still drawing current, The battery is still
          "hot"when shorted across the terminals.  I need to do
          something in the next 3 days as I don't want these batteries
          to freeze.  <br>
          Cecil<br>
        </p>
        <div class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/2020 8:18 AM,
          Stephen Offiler wrote: <br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">Mathematically correct, but bear in mind the
            entire explanation is predicated upon your stated
            assumption, that both 6V and 12V lamps are rated at the same
            wattage.  I agree, and in fact I mentioned this myself,
            somewhere wayyyyy up there in this thread.   Also, if you
            have two of the 12V lamps in parallel (which I believe Cecil
            mentioned back there at square One) that's going to do the
            same thing, double the current draw.  Which option is easier
            depends on what you have laying around:  do you have a
            couple of 12V headlamps, or do you have a single 6V lamp
            that is rated a similar wattage as one of those? 
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>SO</div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb
              15, 2020 at 8:38 AM < <a href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
                moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>> wrote: <br>
            </div>
            <blockquote>
              <div>
                <div
                  class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-gmail-m_-1681538846691093110WordSection1">
                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                      windowtext;">Cecil, let me try to explain why
                      going to the 6v light helps discharge the battery
                      faster.  I think your statement of “…. would not
                      discharge the battery” should really be phrased as
                      it takes too long to discharge the battery.  Lets
                      assume that the 12V lamp and the 6 V lamp are
                      designed to produce 60 Watts.  The 12V lamp then
                      uses 5 Amps but the 6V lamp uses 10 Amps to
                      produce the same power. So the resistance of the
                      6V lamp will be half of the 12V lamp.  Or looking
                      at it another way, the resistance of the 12V lamp
                      is 2.5 ohms and the 6V lamp is 1.25 ohms.   Now
                      lets assume the 12 V battery has been discharged
                      to 1.25 volts and needs to be pulled down
                      further.   The 12 V lamp will only draw a ½ Amp
                      and slowly draw less but the 6V lamp will draw 1
                      Amp initially and slowly get less. The 6 Volt lamp
                      will discharge the battery twice as fast at this
                      lower voltage which one could not do at the 12V
                      starting voltage because it would burn out the 6V
                      lamp. As the battery discharges a lower resistance
                      is needed to keep the discharge rate at a
                      reasonable rate. As the battery voltage drops  the
                      discharge rate drops with it unless the attached
                      resistance is lower. A 12 V lamp would take much
                      longer to fully discharge the battery. That is why
                      the 6V lamp is used after the battery has dropped
                      below 6V.  Just plain old math.  It takes a really
                      long time to get to a true “0” V.  It just takes
                      longer with a 12V Lamp vs a 6V lamp. </span></p>
                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                      windowtext;"> </span></p>
                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                      windowtext;"> </span></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span
                        style="color: windowtext;">Dean VP</span></p>
                    <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span
                        style="color: windowtext;">Apache Junction, AZ</span></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                      windowtext;"> </span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div style="border-right: none; border-bottom: none;
                      border-left: none; border-top: 1pt; padding: 3pt
                      0in 0in;">
                      <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><strong><span
                            style="color: windowtext;">From:</span></strong><span
                          style="color: windowtext;"> AT <<a
                            href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
                          <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Cecil Bearden<br>
                          <strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, February 13,
                          2020 7:37 AM<br>
                          <strong>To:</strong> <a
                            href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
                          <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [AT] Batteries
                          charged backwards.</span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p>The problem I cannot understand is why,  when I
                    connected 2 incandescent headlights in parallel to
                    the battery it would not discharge the battery
                    completely.   My battery supplier told me to then
                    use a 6 volt light.  I have seriously thought about
                    just hooking both in series and then using them as
                    power for arc welding.  A welding rod would
                    discharge them quickly and completely.  Welding can
                    be done using batteries as power... <br>
                    I charge my batteries outside for safety.  These are
                    sealed batteries.  <br>
                    Cecil</p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">On 2/13/2020 8:28
                      AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:</p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">I do not have
                          ADD, although I am starting to wonder what
                          personal issues you might have, Thomas.  And
                          no, the point of this exercise is not to
                          reverse the polarity,  The point is to make
                          the best possible attempt to recover two
                          batteries that have been accidentally
                          reverse-charged.  That involves much more than
                          reversing the polarity.  There's a right way
                          and a lot of wrong ways to tackle each of the
                          steps.  Discharge.  Repolarize.  Recharge.</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">SO</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb
                            13, 2020 at 9:08 AM Thomas Martin <<a
                              href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
                              target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
                            wrote:</p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote>
                          <div>
                            <p>Do you have ADD? The point of this
                              exercise is to reverse the polarity of a
                              battery.</p>
                            <blockquote>
                              <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">On 13
                                February 2020 at 23:15 Stephen Offiler
                                <<a href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
                                  target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
                                wrote:</p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">For
                                  some actual information on lead-acid
                                  charging, try this:</p>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"><a
href="https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery"
                                      target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery</a><br>
                                  </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal">On
                                    Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:49 AM Thomas
                                    Martin < <a
                                      href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
                                      target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
                                    wrote:</p>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote>
                                  <div>
                                    <p>Hi Dean</p>
                                    <p>After the dead battery is
                                      connected to the charged 12v
                                      battery in parallel, a battery
                                      charger is connected, (the charged
                                      battery</p>
                                    <p>is there only to dictate the
                                      polarity), and charging can
                                      commence.</p>
                                    <p>Tom</p>
                                    <blockquote>
                                      <p class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">On
                                        13 February 2020 at 20:41 <a
                                          href="mailto:deanvp@att.net"
                                          target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">deanvp@att.net</a>
                                        wrote:</p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p>Tom,</p>
                                        <p> </p>
                                        <p>Could you explain this a
                                          little further. If the current
                                          from the jumper battery does
                                          not have any effect(affect) on
                                          the dead battery how does it
                                          charge it up?</p>
                                        <p> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>Dean VP</p>
                                          <p>Apache Junction, AZ</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div style="border-right:
                                            none; border-bottom: none;
                                            border-left: none;
                                            border-top: 1pt; padding:
                                            3pt 0in;">
                                            <p><strong><span
                                                  style="font-family:
                                                  Calibri,sans-serif;">From:</span></strong>
                                              AT <<a
                                                href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                rel="noopener"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>>
                                              <strong><span
                                                  style="font-family:
                                                  Calibri,sans-serif;">On
                                                  Behalf Of </span></strong>Thomas
                                              Martin<br>
                                              <strong><span
                                                  style="font-family:
                                                  Calibri,sans-serif;">Sent:</span></strong>
                                              Wednesday, February 12,
                                              2020 12:47 PM<br>
                                              <strong><span
                                                  style="font-family:
                                                  Calibri,sans-serif;">To:</span></strong>
                                              Antique Tractor Email
                                              Discussion Group <<a
                                                href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                rel="noopener"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>><br>
                                              <strong><span
                                                  style="font-family:
                                                  Calibri,sans-serif;">Subject:</span></strong>
                                              Re: [AT] Batteries charged
                                              backwards.</p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                        <p>Stephen</p>
                                        <p>Well it appears you do not
                                          understand the difference
                                          between connecting in series
                                          and parallel.</p>
                                        <p>When you jump start a
                                          vehicle, one connects in
                                          parallel, the current from the
                                          jumper battery does</p>
                                        <p>not have any affect  on the
                                          the dead battery.</p>
                                        <p>Tom.</p>
                                        <blockquote>
                                          <p style="margin-bottom:
                                            12pt;">On 13 February 2020
                                            at 07:52 Stephen Offiler
                                            <<a
                                              href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              rel="noopener"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
                                            wrote:</p>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>I wouldn't purposely
                                                put 50 amps into a
                                                totally dead battery if
                                                I didn't have to, but
                                                then we have the example
                                                cited by others, the
                                                jump-start.  Who-knows
                                                how many amps will flow;
                                                limited only by the
                                                internal resistance of
                                                the batteries and the
                                                cables &
                                                connections.  I don't
                                                think many people
                                                appreciate that a
                                                jump-start is actually
                                                sort of a hail-Mary
                                                maneuver.  If you didn't
                                                need to get the
                                                car/truck/tractor
                                                started ASAP, the smart
                                                move is to charge the
                                                battery slowly and
                                                correctly.  People are
                                                going to chime in and
                                                say "I've been
                                                jump-starting my entire
                                                life and never had a
                                                problem!"  OK.  Me too. 
                                                But the issue here is
                                                that it's impossible to
                                                know how much you might
                                                have shortened the life
                                                of that battery by
                                                hitting it with that big
                                                uncontrolled amperage
                                                surge.  In Cecil
                                                Bearden's case, he's not
                                                stuck in a field or a
                                                parking lot or whatever.
                                                He has the opportunity
                                                to do it right.  And
                                                that definitely does NOT
                                                include hitting it with
                                                a giant surge.</p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p>SO</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <p> </p>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p>On Wed, Feb 12, 2020
                                                  at 1:08 PM Thomas
                                                  Martin < <a
                                                    href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    rel="noopener"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
                                                  wrote:</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>Surely US battery
                                                    chargers have
                                                    adjustable amperage?</p>
                                                  <p>I thought it was a
                                                    given that you
                                                    wouldn't put 50 amps
                                                    into a dead
                                                    battery...</p>
                                                  <p>Tom</p>
                                                  <blockquote>
                                                    <p
                                                      style="margin-bottom:
                                                      12pt;">On 13
                                                      February 2020 at
                                                      03:14 Stephen
                                                      Offiler < <a
                                                        href="mailto:soffiler@gmail.com"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noopener"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">soffiler@gmail.com</a>>
                                                      wrote:</p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p>Hold on.  A
                                                        completely dead
                                                        12V battery
                                                        connected to a
                                                        good 12V battery
                                                        is going to
                                                        cause very large
                                                        current to flow
                                                        into the dead
                                                        one. This is not
                                                        a good idea.</p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p> </p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p>SO</p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p> </p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p> </p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p>On Wed, Feb
                                                          12, 2020 at
                                                          9:08 AM < <a
href="mailto:szabelski@wildblue.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">szabelski@wildblue.net</a>>
                                                          wrote:</p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <blockquote>
                                                        <p>Cecil, <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I agree with
                                                          completely
                                                          discharging
                                                          the batteries
                                                          and then
                                                          putting the
                                                          batteries in
                                                          parallel one
                                                          at a time with
                                                          a good 12V
                                                          battery. The
                                                          batteries will
                                                          try to
                                                          equalize when
                                                          in parallel. 
                                                          When you drain
                                                          the battery,
                                                          take the load
                                                          off and let
                                                          the battery
                                                          sit for a
                                                          while, then
                                                          put the load
                                                          back on and
                                                          drain some
                                                          more. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          You should use
                                                          a battery
                                                          charger that
                                                          has a trickle
                                                          charge
                                                          feature. This
                                                          puts a full
                                                          charge into
                                                          the battery at
                                                          first, then
                                                          drops down to
                                                          a small charge
                                                          to top the
                                                          battery off.
                                                          You may have
                                                          to do this
                                                          several times
                                                          and should
                                                          leave the
                                                          charger on for
                                                          at least one
                                                          full day.
                                                          Don’t rush the
                                                          job. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          You can also
                                                          check that
                                                          each cell is
                                                          good by taking
                                                          a reading
                                                          between each
                                                          cell. A bad
                                                          cell will
                                                          indicate a
                                                          lower charge
                                                          then the
                                                          others. Do
                                                          this with
                                                          every recharge
                                                          attempt and
                                                          note if you’re
                                                          making any
                                                          progress. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Don’t know if
                                                          you’ve ever
                                                          gone on-line
                                                          to look for
                                                          videos on
                                                          bringing dead
                                                          batteries back
                                                          to life, but
                                                          their are some
                                                          that show how
                                                          to drain a
                                                          battery, rinse
                                                          it out, then
                                                          refill and
                                                          recharge. They
                                                          appear to work
                                                          out quite
                                                          well, but I
                                                          can’t swear by
                                                          them since
                                                          I’ve never
                                                          done anything
                                                          like this
                                                          myself. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Good luck! <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Carl <br>
                                                          ----- Original
                                                          Message -----
                                                          <br>
                                                          From: Thomas
                                                          Martin < <a
href="mailto:tmartin@xtra.co.nz" target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">tmartin@xtra.co.nz</a>>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To: Antique
                                                          Tractor Email
                                                          Discussion
                                                          Group < <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank"
                                                          rel="noopener"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>> <br>
                                                          Sent: Wed, 12
                                                          Feb 2020
                                                          00:24:36 -0500
                                                          (EST) <br>
                                                          Subject: Re:
                                                          [AT] Batteries
                                                          charged
                                                          backwards. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Hi Cecil <br>
                                                          I  consulted a
                                                          very good
                                                          friend on the
                                                          other-side of
                                                          the isle. <br>
                                                          Tony is
                                                          auto-electrician,
                                                          of vast car,
                                                          truck &
                                                          tractor
                                                          experience. <br>
                                                          He says you
                                                          MUST discharge
                                                          the batteries,
                                                          separately
                                                          with a bulb. <br>
                                                          They need to
                                                          completely
                                                          discharged. No
                                                          measurable
                                                          voltage. <br>
                                                          Then one
                                                          battery at a
                                                          time needs to
                                                          be placed in
                                                          parallel with
                                                          another <br>
                                                          fully charged
                                                          12v battery,
                                                          they then need
                                                          to be
                                                          connected to a
                                                          12v <br>
                                                          charger... <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Tom <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          > On 12
                                                          February 2020
                                                          at 15:31 Cecil
                                                          Bearden < <a
href="mailto:crbearden@copper.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">crbearden@copper.net</a>>
                                                          wrote: <br>
                                                          > <br>
                                                          > <br>
                                                          > <br>
                                                          > > I
                                                          had 2 group 31
                                                          batteries out
                                                          of the tractor
                                                          that were
                                                          completely <br>
                                                          > >
                                                          dead.  I
                                                          hooked them up
                                                          in series and
                                                          connected my
                                                          24Vcharger to
                                                          them <br>
                                                          > > as
                                                          It was handy
                                                          and I wanted
                                                          to charge
                                                          both.  After a
                                                          couple of days
                                                          I <br>
                                                          > >
                                                          checked them
                                                          and found that
                                                          I had hooked
                                                          the charger
                                                          backwards.  I
                                                          <br>
                                                          > >
                                                          hooked a
                                                          couple of
                                                          incandescent
                                                          headlights to
                                                          drain the
                                                          battery, but <br>
                                                          > >
                                                          after 3 days
                                                          they won't
                                                          light up the
                                                          headlights,
                                                          but they still
                                                          have a <br>
                                                          > > lot
                                                          of spark when
                                                          shorted with
                                                          cables..  A
                                                          guy at my
                                                          battery shop
                                                          said <br>
                                                          > > I
                                                          should hook up
                                                          a 6volt light
                                                          to them and
                                                          use that to
                                                          run them <br>
                                                          > >
                                                          down....  At
                                                          $100/ea, I
                                                          need to try to
                                                          save these...
                                                          <br>
                                                          > >
                                                          Cecil <br>
                                                          >
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                    <pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
                    <pre>AT mailing list</pre>
                    <pre><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
</pre>
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          <pre class="ox-0a30d7ce8c-moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
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</pre>
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      <br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
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