[AT] Kubota M5700 noise
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Sat Aug 8 20:19:50 PDT 2020
Pic came through just fine, thanks for the update!
Mike M
On 8/8/2020 8:12 PM, Mike Maynard wrote:
> Here is the YouTube link of the video -
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMxOofbbJOA
>
> guess I should have supplied it earlier!
>
> 99% sure the source of the noise has been located - see attached
> picture (if the list allows them.... been many years since I
> participated much)
>
>
> Mike
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 6:26 AM Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com
> <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Me neither. Error:
> Access to r3---sn-vgqsrnek.googlevideo.com
> <http://r3---sn-vgqsrnek.googlevideo.com> was denied You don't
> have authorization to view this page.
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:00 AM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com
> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>> wrote:
>
> Won't load for me Dave.
>
> Mike M
>
>
> On 4/18/2020 4:52 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>> Will do Mike. I appreciate all the help and interest in
>> helping me find a solution to this problem. Many very
>> experienced and knowledgeable people on here and I certainly
>> enjoy reading everything and many times learning things. We
>> haven't gotten very much further with this due to some other
>> pressing things, but will. New injectors made no difference
>> at all. Just today however, the guys are working on a four
>> cylinder version of this Kubota engine and sent me the
>> attached video clip. Sounds very similar to my noise. Weak
>> valve spring in the head, see what you all think. If you
>> click on this, at the bottom it says "go to link" and it will
>> get you there. Sorry, haven't been on a computer since I
>> retired and just got my laptop back from my son who fixed it,
>> so figuring how to get this texted video to attach to the
>> email was a chore and not sure if this was the way, but it
>> worked! Lol
>>
>> Dave Maynard
>> The Maple Hill Farm
>> Marion, NY
>> https://r3---sn-vgqsrnek.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?expire=1587249885&ei=vWabXuqQJ-yPir4PnP2b0Ag&ip=74.69.206.141&id=8e77dec671cecdd0&itag=37&source=picasa&begin=0&requiressl=yes&mh=4G&mm=30&mn=sn-vgqsrnek&ms=nxu&mv=u&mvi=2&pl=23&sc=yes&susc=ph&app=fife&mime=video/mp4&cnr=14&dur=6.153&lmt=1587239101906161&mt=1587242304&sparams=expire,ei,ip,id,itag,source,requiressl,susc,app,mime,cnr,dur,lmt&sig=AJpPlLswRQIhAMem1LR4HFWc9FRrnjAuULSl_8Hct2cwBUMJvVjpSp08AiAKJ78mrFHMS8CdrtzfOAcROoIhrd9w_-3bWHzQSXHX_A==&lsparams=mh,mm,mn,ms,mv,mvi,pl,sc&lsig=ALrAebAwRAIgOvaXXGqqyzob2OV9veVkI84nmv2LSX6Pa1YivEL5jbMCIFnKOojXR0kxcC_cjLU_y9tvAbOImRgjUxXal3_let-J
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 1:16 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com
>> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Keep us updated Dave, this has been an interesting and
>> informative thread.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>>
>> On 4/8/2020 12:57 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>>> By the way, not even sure if this has the wrong rod,
>>> just been guessing until we can get it in and apart. I
>>> wonder though if there could be residual fuel from an
>>> unfinished burn caused by yet unknown reason. Maybe
>>> carbon buildup in pre combustion chamber which may cause
>>> higher compression or poor atomization. Maybe Cecil's
>>> thought of loose or cracked pre combustion chamber.
>>> Unseen crack in the head, causing an improper mixture,
>>> or maybe even a piston pin bearing we missed. Still dont
>>> know how soon we can get it inside and apart, as we need
>>> to get a place ready. Don't want it apart outside, and
>>> this time it could be apart a little longer than the
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Dave M.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 12:46 PM Dave Maynard
>>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The tractor in NY you are referring to IS this
>>> tractor. That is a post my son Mike made back when
>>> we first got it. You may recognize him on here as
>>> Mangus.
>>>
>>> Dave M
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 11:58 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam
>>> <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net
>>> <mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A Google search for kubota M5700 engine noise
>>> turns up a thread on tractorbytenet about a
>>> tractor in new york with exactly the same
>>> problem. Knock piston 5. You might follow this
>>> thread to see if there was a solution
>>>
>>> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
>>> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
>>>
>>> My father picked up a M5700 this weekend.
>>> Overall its in nice shape, but we have a couple
>>> things we are trying t...
>>>
>>> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 9:36:42 AM CDT,
>>> Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net
>>> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the possibility of leftover fuel on the
>>> piston might be the problem. Steve O may have
>>> figured it out. It has been many years since I
>>> did a compression analysis. Old Dog forgets
>>> older tricks thing!!!
>>> Maybe you can get an application list for the
>>> rod number??
>>> Cecil
>>>
>>> On 4/8/2020 9:11 AM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>>> By reducing compression, would ignition take
>>> place at the proper time? Would combustion be
>>> complete, or would there be leftover fuel that
>>> could change things on next compression stroke,
>>> and maybe pre ignite causing the knock?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 5:18 AM Stephen Offiler
>>> <soffiler at gmail.com <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just worked out some math. That engine is
>>> 87mm bore x 92mm stroke. 23:1 compression.
>>> Swept volume is .547 liter,
>>> giving combustion chamber volume of .0238
>>> liter. Now, what-if the con rod was 1mm too
>>> short? That adds .0059 liter to the
>>> combustion chamber, now .0297 liter, which
>>> drops compression down to 18.4:1
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:02 PM Doug Tallman
>>> <dtallman at accnorwalk.com
>>> <mailto:dtallman at accnorwalk.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The rod being too short can't change
>>> injector timing or cause pre-ignition.
>>> It would just mean less compression
>>> because the piston wouldn't come up as
>>> far. Doug T
>>>
>>> On 4/6/2020 6:24 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>>>> I know the piston is correct as we
>>>> replaced it. But James makes a good
>>>> point to ponder, if the rod is too
>>>> short, it may change injector timing.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 6:03 PM Bo Hinch
>>>> <bohinch at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:bohinch at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Or the wrong Piston ( too short or
>>>> tall ) .
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 12:40 PM
>>>> Dave Maynard
>>>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>>>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Actually, did not check length
>>>> of connecting rod and its
>>>> clearance from head at TDC. But
>>>> it's not traveling to close to
>>>> the head as there would be
>>>> damage showing. Just have this
>>>> new concern about the wrong rod
>>>> being put in by mistake, but
>>>> that would have been short, not
>>>> long.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 1:01 PM
>>>> Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com
>>>> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When you had it apart, did
>>>> you check all the
>>>> piston,ring and bearing
>>>> clearances?
>>>>
>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/6/2020 11:35 AM, Dave
>>>> Maynard wrote:
>>>>> No sleeves in this engine.
>>>>> Someone had this engine
>>>>> apart before and #5 had a
>>>>> new piston and rod and
>>>>> bearings. The seller said
>>>>> it was his father's
>>>>> tractor since new and
>>>>> never been apart....he
>>>>> lied! There was more RTV
>>>>> on oil pan than you could
>>>>> imagine and obviously that
>>>>> piston and rod and
>>>>> bearings had been replaced
>>>>> and I thought they had
>>>>> been chasing the noise.
>>>>> Unless there was some
>>>>> other reason, but dont know.
>>>>> My friend and
>>>>> mechanic help has a
>>>>> Jacobson mower he's is
>>>>> rebuilding that has a 4
>>>>> cylinder version of this
>>>>> motor that appears
>>>>> identical except the
>>>>> number of cyl's. He found
>>>>> the rod to be the same
>>>>> except it a tweak shorter
>>>>> by an almost immeasurable
>>>>> amount, maybe .005 or
>>>>> .010. Part number is
>>>>> almost the same except
>>>>> last digit and now I'm
>>>>> wondering if that could be
>>>>> someone's mistake. Would
>>>>> shorter rod cause
>>>>> preignition? By the way,
>>>>> there is no part number on
>>>>> the rods so they would
>>>>> have to be accurately
>>>>> measured.
>>>>> It's going to be a
>>>>> bit before I can get this
>>>>> back apart again, but
>>>>> hoping to have this fixed
>>>>> in time to plow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 9:08
>>>>> AM Cecil Bearden
>>>>> <crbearden at copper.net
>>>>> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That was one of my
>>>>> thoughts, but my
>>>>> experience has been
>>>>> that the liner
>>>>> movement was a double
>>>>> "thud" once on down
>>>>> stroke and once on
>>>>> upstroke.
>>>>> Cecil
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/6/2020 1:12 AM,
>>>>> k7jdj at aol.com
>>>>> <mailto:k7jdj at aol.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Cylinder liner loose.
>>>>>> Don't know if this
>>>>>> engine even has
>>>>>> cylinder liners if it
>>>>>> does and that liner
>>>>>> is moving you would
>>>>>> get click. Did you
>>>>>> look carefully at the
>>>>>> head when you had it
>>>>>> off and look for any
>>>>>> sign of head distress?
>>>>>> I would do a
>>>>>> compression check as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Renton, WA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original
>>>>>> Message-----
>>>>>> From: Roger Moffat
>>>>>> <rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: Antique Tractor
>>>>>> Email Discussion
>>>>>> Group
>>>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sun, Apr 5,
>>>>>> 2020 7:43 pm
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT]
>>>>>> Kubota M5700 noise
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2020, at
>>>>>>> 9:59 PM, Dave
>>>>>>> Maynard
>>>>>>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have cracked
>>>>>>> injector lines one
>>>>>>> at a time, and it
>>>>>>> gets quieter on #5
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But only on #5?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you crack the
>>>>>> others the engine
>>>>>> misses, but the noise
>>>>>> remains?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if something
>>>>>> about cylinder 5 is
>>>>>> somehow different so
>>>>>> that the compression
>>>>>> is higher, and so
>>>>>> it’s igniting
>>>>>> (pre-igniting) too
>>>>>> much before top dead
>>>>>> centre in just that
>>>>>> cylinder?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eg #5 piston slightly
>>>>>> higher than the other 4?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger
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